Before Jordan Peterson.....

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 11 May 2018, 15:22

Jimbo wrote:
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Sam Harris has many interesting things to say.


What?

That God doesn't exist, and that Sam Harris is His Prophet?


Ya got me there, boyo.


:lol:

Cheers for that one!
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Copehead » 11 May 2018, 17:03

BOLLY BEE wrote:Anyway Peterson is a fucking tool.


It is always amusing to see the caliber of person that the political right think counts as an intellectual.

Usually an overlooked humanities prof from a minor university with a fixation on Ayn Rand they never grew out of and a massive chip on their shoulder about being sneered at by cleverer folks.

One interview on TV where they don't make a fool of themselves or blurt out something racist and they are an intellectual star of the political right.

Easy money.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 11 May 2018, 17:35

Copehead wrote:
BOLLY BEE wrote:Anyway Peterson is a fucking tool.


It is always amusing to see the caliber of person that the political right think counts as an intellectual.

Usually an overlooked humanities prof from a minor university with a fixation on Ayn Rand they never grew out of and a massive chip on their shoulder about being sneered at by cleverer folks.

One interview on TV where they don't make a fool of themselves or blurt out something racist and they are an intellectual star of the political right.

Easy money.


:)

In fairness, Peterson accepted an invitation from some Dutch alt-right 'activist group', and he gave a lecture (c. 4 months ago IIRC). What I gathered from reviews and some fragments is that he isn't so much inept (or on the politically 'wrong' side), as that he's confused in terms of clearly speaking about his own subject matter (perhaps even afraid to draw criticism from his many fans out there). I also thought that he wasn't precisely aware of the character of this particular organisation and its real aims (a.o. to push the agenda of a few severely deluded Dutch populist politicians).

Also funny: the Dutch alt-right never passes even the slightest opportunity to cry havoc about the humanities (in which, they think, only dangerous 'cultural marxists' do their dirty underground things, to bring about a Soviet-style tyranny ASAP) - but once the same alt-right discovers a humanities prof who comes across as remotely conservative, it declares that person as its new God, without really knowing what ideas she/he represents.

Oh, and I got hold of Peterson's book Maps and Meanings, for beer money. To see what the man actually has to offer.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby sloopjohnc » 11 May 2018, 17:44

Diamond Dog wrote:Pol Pot.


:lol:
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby sloopjohnc » 11 May 2018, 17:51

Dr Markus wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Marshall Mcluhan
Chomsky


Never heard of McLuhan, must check him out. Been reading up on Cornel West. Interesting dude.


At the time McLuhan wrote, there were a few "futurists" out there writing about technology, culture and human behavior - Alvin Toffler was the other big one with Future Shock. As a media and journalism student at the time, we had to read them for some reason.

McLuhan has some interesting things to say and even appeared in a Woody Allen movie.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Insouciant Western People » 13 May 2018, 15:23

Off the top of my head, try some of these Markus, all worth a read. Just give them a Google and go from there.

Isaiah Berlin
Raymond Aron
Jean-Francois Revel
Roger Scruton
Norman Geras
Camille Paglia
Christopher Hitchens
Theodore Dalrymple
Germaine Greer
Bernard Henri-Levy
Pascal Bruckner
Alain Finkielkraut
Paul Berman
Oriana Fallaci
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Dr Markus » 13 May 2018, 17:56

Cheers nick.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Jimbo » 14 May 2018, 13:10

Insouciant Western People wrote:Camille Paglia


A fave of mine. Camille, a Rolling Stones fanatic, is literally the coolest of the bunch in that her philosophy and opinions stem from the 60s hippie ideals of love, peace and doing your own thing. She doesn't roll her eyes at these notions. She takes them seriously and forms judgements about music, fashion, behavior, etc. with these in mind.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby toomanyhatz » 14 May 2018, 18:53

Jimbo wrote:
Insouciant Western People wrote:Camille Paglia


A fave of mine. Camille, a Rolling Stones fanatic, is literally the coolest of the bunch in that her philosophy and opinions stem from the 60s hippie ideals of love, peace and doing your own thing. She doesn't roll her eyes at these notions. She takes them seriously and forms judgements about music, fashion, behavior, etc. with these in mind.


Camille Paglia wrote:Complaints to the Human Resources department after the fact are no substitute for women themselves drawing the line against offensive behavior — on the spot and in the moment. Working-class women are often so dependent on their jobs that they cannot fight back, but there is no excuse for well-educated, middle-class women to elevate career advantage or fear of social embarrassment over their own dignity and self-respect as human beings. Speak up now, or shut up later! Modern democracy is predicated on principles of due process and the presumption of innocence.


Yuck.

I disagree with Peterson fairly often, but I don't think he's ever said anything this offensive.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby caramba » 15 May 2018, 07:55

Dr Markus wrote:Who were the people who were commentating on society, religion etc in say the 60's, 70's 80's etc? Anyone worth checking out?


Sir John ("pass the sick bag, Alice") Junor.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby The Modernist » 15 May 2018, 09:10

Insouciant Western People wrote:Off the top of my head, try some of these Markus, all worth a read. Just give them a Google and go from there.

Isaiah Berlin
Raymond Aron
Jean-Francois Revel
Roger Scruton
Norman Geras
Camille Paglia
Christopher Hitchens
Theodore Dalrymple
Germaine Greer
Bernard Henri-Levy
Pascal Bruckner
Alain Finkielkraut
Paul Berman
Oriana Fallaci


Think he'll go for the the google part, not so much the reading. ;)

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 15 May 2018, 09:33

Watch Hitchens on youtube, that's a start.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby mission » 15 May 2018, 10:28

Hitchens the neocon, lickspittle hawk or Hitchens the doe-eyed lefty who none could resist, sexually as well as intellectually?
Goodness gracious me.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby mission » 15 May 2018, 10:35

Jimbo wrote:
Insouciant Western People wrote:Camille Paglia


A fave of mine. Camille, a Rolling Stones fanatic, is literally the coolest of the bunch in that her philosophy and opinions stem from the 60s hippie ideals of love, peace and doing your own thing. She doesn't roll her eyes at these notions. She takes them seriously and forms judgements about music, fashion, behavior, etc. with these in mind.


This does not surprise me. In the least. You share a capacity for tortured reasoning, illogical - often flatly contradictory - statements and a plainly wrong belief in the sixties as being a Golden Age.

And it is your conception of the 60s that is wrong; along with your belief in it as a Golden Age.

There is an excuse for you in that you are a well-intentioned boob educated beyond your meagre intelligence and allowed unsupervised access to the internet. Paglia gets paid for her incoherent cocksuckery.
Goodness gracious me.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 15 May 2018, 10:36

mission wrote:Hitchens the neocon, lickspittle hawk or Hitchens the doe-eyed lefty who none could resist, sexually as well as intellectually?




He was more consistent on some 'core issues' than you might think.

Anyway you'll get much more of the former on youtube 'cos that was the latter-day Hitch - and it's always worth watching him tear someone apart on some CNN/BBC debate.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Toby » 15 May 2018, 10:40

Peter Hitchens is better than Christopher. His late brother made a dreadful error over Iraq.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby mission » 15 May 2018, 10:47

BOLLY BEE wrote:
mission wrote:Hitchens the neocon, lickspittle hawk or Hitchens the doe-eyed lefty who none could resist, sexually as well as intellectually?




He was more consistent on some 'core issues' than you might think.

Anyway you'll get much more of the former on youtube 'cos that was the latter-day Hitch - and it's always worth watching him tear someone apart on some CNN/BBC debate.


Unshakeable in his belief in Hitchens.

Lovely voice. Remarkable on his feet. Bit of a cunt.

What's he going to say that will help the good Dr Markus navigate his way through life?
Goodness gracious me.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 15 May 2018, 10:47

Toby wrote:Peter Hitchens is better than Christopher. His late brother made a dreadful error over Iraq.


He did. But he was easier to watch and to listen to. And that helps when you're trying to sit through an hour of intense chat.

Peter comes out with some dreadful shite at times.
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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 15 May 2018, 10:48

mission wrote:
BOLLY BEE wrote:
mission wrote:Hitchens the neocon, lickspittle hawk or Hitchens the doe-eyed lefty who none could resist, sexually as well as intellectually?




He was more consistent on some 'core issues' than you might think.

Anyway you'll get much more of the former on youtube 'cos that was the latter-day Hitch - and it's always worth watching him tear someone apart on some CNN/BBC debate.


Unshakeable in his belief in Hitchens.

Lovely voice. Remarkable on his feet. Bit of a cunt.

What's he going to say that will help the good Dr Markus navigate his way through life?


Markus - as usual - isn't really interested in any of this.

He'd be better off getting hold of a book on syntax.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

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Re: Before Jordan Peterson.....

Postby mission » 15 May 2018, 10:56

Markus' almost completely unfiltered transcription of his mental processes is a genuine mystery to me. It is as though he is in the room with you, thrashing about, tipping shit over. Alternately whispering and shouting, dropping ciggie butts in his unfinished drink and spraying halfswallowed ash-booze everywhere.

Noone writes exactly the way they speak, surely? It takes real talent.
Goodness gracious me.