The BCB Immigration discussion

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
LeBaron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 42710
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby LeBaron » 20 Apr 2018, 19:46

I’m with sneelock!
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
jimboo
Posts: 6767
Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 17:43
Location: taking a foxy kind of stand

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby jimboo » 20 Apr 2018, 20:05

Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:I just don't think you need to bring in particular political perspectives and then use them as a weapon to attack people with.

It's like the whole "stupid people" motif you use a lot. You are left-wing because on the whole you believe that left-wing people are more caring and more compassionate. But then you call others who don't suit your political criteria stupid and thick. You couldn't be more arrogant and hypocritical if you tried.


Left wing people are statistically more caring and compassionate and right wing people are statistically more selfish, that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality. after all it largely defines how they vote.




Scource?
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

User avatar
Samoan
Posts: 10026
Joined: 28 May 2008, 10:22
Location: Red Hen restaurant

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Samoan » 20 Apr 2018, 20:26

Copehead wrote:Left wing people are statistically more caring and compassionate and right wing people are statistically more selfish, that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality. after all it largely defines how they vote.

I've met many fully paid up, card carrying Labour party members at a previous place of work (NHS) who wouldn't give me, or anyone, the steam off their proverbial.

Their attitude towards the patients stank. " Treat 'em and Street 'em" , " We're not social workers " , " Time Wasters and Malingers " , " A Frequent Flyer ", " One of The Munch Bunch " (referring to (?) Munchausen syndrome).



There is no such thing as an inappropriate A&E attender, just inappropriate attitudes towards them by some NHS staff. The burden of proof lies with the Triage nurse or doctor as to how to categorize them.
Last edited by Samoan on 20 Apr 2018, 20:51, edited 7 times in total.
bobzilla77 wrote:Those people who say the guitars sound like bagpipes have never really listened to bagpipes.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 65831
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 Apr 2018, 20:28

sneelock wrote:still, I think the concept of illegal people is something I'd like to see less of mainly because it's making it easier with each passing day to think of our fellow men & women as less than human in more ways than where they came from.


That's exactly it. The way that 'illegal person' so easily leads to the demonisation of a group of people - demonisation by the Government of a group of people.

Hence :

It is a boast that Theresa May has been repeating for the past five years. “The aim is to create, here in Britain, a really hostile environment for illegal immigrants,” she said in 2012 when, as home secretary, she was challenged on why annual net immigration, then running at about 250,000, was stubbornly above the Conservatives’ controversial “tens of thousands” target.

from The Guardian last November.

There it is. The demonisation of a group of people by the Leader of the country.

We all knows where this leads.

Nick Timothy, who was May’s adviser at the Home Office and her chief of staff at No 10 until July, said she had intended to block the rollout of advertising vans that said those in the UK illegally should “go home or face arrest”.

The vehicles, which were driven around six London boroughs with areas of high migration, became notorious as part of May’s “hostile environment” strategy aiming to crack down on illegal immigration.

Timothy claimed May had unfairly received a lot of flak for the vans. “In fact, she blocked the proposal but it was revived and approved in a communications plan while she was on holiday,” he wrote in a column for the Telegraph. “She killed off the scheme later that year but by then the damage had been done.”

However, in a reply to the Labour MP Tulip Siddiq in 2016, the immigration minister, Robert Goodwill, said the pilot scheme, which ran between July and August 2013, had been approved by the prime minister when she was at the Home Office.

“The pilot to use the AdVans referred to was authorised by former immigration minister Mark Harper,” he said. “The former home secretary Theresa May was informed of the intention to pilot this campaign.”

May also suggested she had approved the plans when she was at a home affairs select committee in October 2013 and hinted the pilot could be extended – though it was eventually pulled.


Also from The Guardian, yesterday.

The pen is always mightier than the sword.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35067
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby yomptepi » 20 Apr 2018, 20:36

Diamond Dog wrote:[

However, in a reply to the Labour MP Tulip Siddiq in 2016, the immigration minister, Robert Goodwill, said the pilot scheme, which ran between July and August 2013, had been approved by the prime minister when she was at the Home Office.

.


Tulip Siddiq?

Christ you really don't care who you throw your hat in with, do you?
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 65831
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 Apr 2018, 20:44

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:[

However, in a reply to the Labour MP Tulip Siddiq in 2016, the immigration minister, Robert Goodwill, said the pilot scheme, which ran between July and August 2013, had been approved by the prime minister when she was at the Home Office.

.


Tulip Siddiq?

Christ you really don't care who you throw your hat in with, do you?


Is it relevant who asked the question?
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23559
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Apr 2018, 20:44

sneelock wrote:
one of my relations might be the single finest man I've ever met. he is a true "give the shirt off your back" person. I've seen him engage in spontaneous acts of kindness at least a dozen times in my life. He is also an outspoken Ayn Rand type Republican. I've asked him how he squares his personal dynamic response to selflessly help others to the most self-centered of political philosophies. His answer actually made sense to me. HE is a compassionate person but he feels, in his heart of hearts, that it's no business of the Government to TELL him to be compassionate.


But it IS the business of government to tell a woman what to do about her pregnancy? Eh, kindest-guy-Snee-knows?

The situational libertarianism of most conservatives drives me a bit crazy. But less crazy than actual libertarians.

I often ask libertarians about my disabled child. They’ll agree that society ought to have answers for kids like mine. But they think that churches and charities ought to fill that void. I’ll ask them if their church or any charity they’vw given to is currently meeting the ongoing day to day needs of people like her year in, year out. At best, they’ll weakly argue that churches and charities WOULD meet those needs if taxes weren’t so high.

So I expect the big Trump tax cuts to translate into massive charitable giving able to meet all of society’s “legitimate” needs.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Harvey K-Tel
Long Player
Posts: 39700
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 23:20
Location: 1220 on your AM dial

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 20 Apr 2018, 20:56

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
I often ask libertarians about my disabled child. They’ll agree that society ought to have answers for kids like mine. But they think that churches and charities ought to fill that void. I’ll ask them if their church or any charity they’vw given to is currently meeting the ongoing day to day needs of people like her year in, year out. At best, they’ll weakly argue that churches and charities WOULD meet those needs if taxes weren’t so high.



I thought churches and charities didn't pay taxes? Which makes it an even weaker argument.
If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 23695
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Copehead » 20 Apr 2018, 20:59

K wrote:Copehead, if TEFL stands for Teaching English as a Foreign Language (which it does) then you wrote:

"...those who can't teaching English as a foreign language"

If someone said that it sounds like they need TEFL!


That's why i created the verb to TEFL.

Doing this is all the rage amongst the youth. Old people get very upset by people doing things like making medal a verb.

I thought it was a well known conceit, how old are you :?

I have misjudged my audience, I am like Stewart Lee playing a Golf Club
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 23695
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Copehead » 20 Apr 2018, 21:00

LeBaron wrote:I’m with sneelock!


I'm with stupid ----->
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 23695
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Copehead » 20 Apr 2018, 21:03

jimboo wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:I just don't think you need to bring in particular political perspectives and then use them as a weapon to attack people with.

It's like the whole "stupid people" motif you use a lot. You are left-wing because on the whole you believe that left-wing people are more caring and more compassionate. But then you call others who don't suit your political criteria stupid and thick. You couldn't be more arrogant and hypocritical if you tried.


Left wing people are statistically more caring and compassionate and right wing people are statistically more selfish, that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality. after all it largely defines how they vote.




Scource?


Image
I made it up
That is all the rage as well
It is bound to be out there but I can't be bothered to find it just like you can't be bothered to see if I made it up.
What a world.
Good job we aren't anything important like world leaders.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 23695
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Copehead » 20 Apr 2018, 21:14

Samoan wrote:
Copehead wrote:Left wing people are statistically more caring and compassionate and right wing people are statistically more selfish, that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality. after all it largely defines how they vote.

I've met many fully paid up, card carrying Labour party members at a previous place of work (NHS) who wouldn't give me, or anyone, the steam off their proverbial.

Their attitude towards the patients stank. " Treat 'em and Street 'em" , " We're not social workers " , " Time Wasters and Malingers " , " A Frequent Flyer ", " One of The Munch Bunch " (referring to (?) Munchausen syndrome).



There is no such thing as an inappropriate A&E attender, just inappropriate attitudes towards them by some NHS staff. The burden of proof lies with the Triage nurse or doctor as to how to categorize them.


That is why we do surveys and statistics to work out generalities so we don't rely on anecdote.
Or don't do them in my case.

Everyone knows a lefty who is a selfish wanker, Sneelock knows a Randian who is one of the kindest persons he has ever met.

I believe the term is "outliers"

But then again maybe I made that up as well because I can't even be bothered to google outlier.

It isn't even as f I am busy, I am bored and at a loose end and I still can't be bothered to back up what I am saying with hard data.

Isn't it something else I have possibly made up that a lot of top surgeons are high functioning clinical psychopaths? I would imagine in many cases when you are dealing with life and death situations as a practitioner of medicine then not caring about the patient as a person could be a positive boon.

I will put finding the evidence to prove that lefties are mire selfless and righties more selfish on my to do list, but it really depends on how stuck into the rugby I get tomorrow and whether my hip olds up to a 5k run. These are, as yet, imponderables, but I really should do it, we can't have people going around BCB making unevidenced claims.
Last edited by Copehead on 20 Apr 2018, 23:48, edited 1 time in total.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
jimboo
Posts: 6767
Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 17:43
Location: taking a foxy kind of stand

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby jimboo » 20 Apr 2018, 22:09

Copehead wrote:that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality.




I made it up


I still can't be bothered to back up what I am saying with hard data.


Everyone knows a lefty who is a selfish wanker,


Mmmmm.
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23559
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Apr 2018, 22:37

Harvey K-Tel wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
I often ask libertarians about my disabled child. They’ll agree that society ought to have answers for kids like mine. But they think that churches and charities ought to fill that void. I’ll ask them if their church or any charity they’vw given to is currently meeting the ongoing day to day needs of people like her year in, year out. At best, they’ll weakly argue that churches and charities WOULD meet those needs if taxes weren’t so high.



I thought churches and charities didn't pay taxes? Which makes it an even weaker argument.


There IS that. :lol:

But the argument is always, people would give more if the government didn’t take it. But mostly they’d give to churches, who aren’t nearly as good as government at meeting most societal needs.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 62499
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Apr 2018, 22:49

Copehead wrote:Isn't it something else I have possibly made up that a lot of top surgeons are high functioning clinical psychopaths? I would imagine in many cases when you are dealing with life and death situations as a practitioner of medicine then not carrying about the patient as a person could be a positive boon.


I don't know if I'd want a surgeon who told me before the operation that they didn't give a fuck whether I lived or died.
WG Kaspar wrote:I'm a happy bunny.

User avatar
sneelock
Posts: 11569
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby sneelock » 20 Apr 2018, 23:01

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Harvey K-Tel wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
I often ask libertarians about my disabled child. They’ll agree that society ought to have answers for kids like mine. But they think that churches and charities ought to fill that void. I’ll ask them if their church or any charity they’vw given to is currently meeting the ongoing day to day needs of people like her year in, year out. At best, they’ll weakly argue that churches and charities WOULD meet those needs if taxes weren’t so high.



I thought churches and charities didn't pay taxes? Which makes it an even weaker argument.


There IS that. :lol:

But the argument is always, people would give more if the government didn’t take it. But mostly they’d give to churches, who aren’t nearly as good as government at meeting most societal needs.


worse than ever! I saw a poll today that TRUMP is polling better than ever with evangelicals. this makes a lot of sense. with years of ghoulish leadership from the likes of Pat Robertson and Mike Fucking Huckabee it makes sense that the milk of human kindness isn't exactly flowing with that crowd. the good news in the poll is that fewer and fewer youngsters are identifying as evangelicals.

it's a BS argument - always has been. charitable institutions & the private sector do NOT pick up the slack.
TuckerCrowe wrote:Is irony your answer to everything ?

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 23695
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Copehead » 20 Apr 2018, 23:47

jimboo wrote:
Copehead wrote:that isn't being insulting that is just pointing out reality.




I made it up


I still can't be bothered to back up what I am saying with hard data.


Everyone knows a lefty who is a selfish wanker,


Mmmmm.


Image

I know!
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
jimboo
Posts: 6767
Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 17:43
Location: taking a foxy kind of stand

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby jimboo » 21 Apr 2018, 01:20

Now yer talking!
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 22187
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby never/ever » 21 Apr 2018, 03:36

I can't be bovvered to check either but do left-wing people tend to work less hard because they tend to demonstrate more?
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 65831
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: The BCB Immigration discussion

Postby Diamond Dog » 21 Apr 2018, 09:07

Toby wrote:What the law should be applies entirely to what country. Denmark I'm sure has a very different policy on Immigration to somewhere like Argentina.

Thus is why global concepts of the morality of immigration are problematic.


I'm sure they do, Toby.

But - you are hung up on the "The Law is the Law" though. As if it can never be morally wrong and is always framed with the 'duty of care' you referred to earlier. That's simply isn't how legislation works - I would suggest, in any country. Laws get passed - good or bad, fair or unfair- because a party/coalition has enough votes to pass them. Simple as that - there is absolutely no obligation to consider or legislate for fairness or duty of care, as has been demostrated on numerous occasions.

This is particularly the case with immigration law which, by its very nature, is actually legalising discrimination.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 22 Apr 2018, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.