Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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bobzilla77
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby bobzilla77 » 27 Mar 2018, 21:20

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Alleged Local Policeman wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I used to believe that people would make good choices if they only knew the truth.


You're glad you don't think that now?


Better not to labor under delusion.


I saw a rather interesting TED talk a while back, on the topic of being wrong. It went through the three stages we go through when people disagree with us.

First, we think they are just ignorant - if they knew the facts, surely they would come to the right conclusion. Then it turns out that those people do know the facts.

So second, we say they are not that bright. If only they had the same information, and were as smart as I, we would surely agree. But then, come to find, some of those people are extremely well educated and erudite. Yet we still disagree.

That brings us to the third conclusion. They are EVIL - they know the truth and wish to hide it. For some sinister purpose. There is no other reason for us to disagree.

That's ridiculous on its face, right? We're not that arrogant, we don't think. But isn't that the way it goes...

The point of the talk, was that we ALL need to break free from our inherent bias that, because we consider ourselves pretty smart and honest with ourselves, WE ARE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. We need to embrace the possibility that just maybe, we could be wrong about some things, and not exclude information that conflicts with our pre-conceived ideas.

I still talk about shit as if I am right and everyone knows it. Old habits die hard. But I do try to keep that in mind.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby sloopjohnc » 27 Mar 2018, 22:31

Harvey K-Tel wrote:When I ran for class president in grade 6 I campaigned on a platform I called "Free Candy Fridays" but the school refused to back me and I was literally thrown under the bus (thankfully it wasn't moving at the time) by the teacher's pet. I was completely disillusioned by the whole sordid process and now I can only look back on my failed political career and cringe.


When I was a senior in high school, some of my friends were applying for good colleges and needed some more credits for their applications. They decided to run for office and at the student assembly, stood up at the mic in front of the student body and said, "The way to win an election is to buy an election," and threw out bubblegum to the student body.

They won in a landslide.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby LeBaron » 27 Mar 2018, 22:43

I learned a similar lesson in 5th Grade when I ran for Student Body President against the most popular girl in my grade (and, therefore, the most popular girl in school). I suspect I had a broader base of support and I certainly ran an earnest campaign, but she was giving out campaign shoelaces and pencils and shit like that. I never stood a chance.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby sloopjohnc » 27 Mar 2018, 22:44

bobzilla77 wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Alleged Local Policeman wrote:
You're glad you don't think that now?


Better not to labor under delusion.


I saw a rather interesting TED talk a while back, on the topic of being wrong. It went through the three stages we go through when people disagree with us.

First, we think they are just ignorant - if they knew the facts, surely they would come to the right conclusion. Then it turns out that those people do know the facts.

So second, we say they are not that bright. If only they had the same information, and were as smart as I, we would surely agree. But then, come to find, some of those people are extremely well educated and erudite. Yet we still disagree.

That brings us to the third conclusion. They are EVIL - they know the truth and wish to hide it. For some sinister purpose. There is no other reason for us to disagree.

That's ridiculous on its face, right? We're not that arrogant, we don't think. But isn't that the way it goes...

The point of the talk, was that we ALL need to break free from our inherent bias that, because we consider ourselves pretty smart and honest with ourselves, WE ARE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. We need to embrace the possibility that just maybe, we could be wrong about some things, and not exclude information that conflicts with our pre-conceived ideas.

I still talk about shit as if I am right and everyone knows it. Old habits die hard. But I do try to keep that in mind.


I've come to the same conclusion. I know when people disagree with me and I feel hurt or irritated, I can usually trace it back to my own self-pride. I've never seen the stages laid out like that, but I think all or portions of them hold true when my own pride is hurt when someone disagrees with me.

I see this with my own 15 year-old son. If he posits some theory and i don't agree he calls me an idiot. He'll try convincing me some more and if I still don't agree he'll say I don't understand and still call me an idiot. He'll usually try a third time and he'll claim I'm not listening and that I'm an even bigger idiot than when he called me an idiot the first time.

A few months back, a third party company we hire for SEO was giving us some numbers on a search term. I told my boss after the phone call that I didn't buy the figure they quoted or understand how they got them. My boss, who has a tendency to not to want to appear ignorant, tried convincing me how they got there. I told him I understood, but still didn't buy it.

By the end of the conversation I asked him why I had to take the number as fact if I didn't believe them and what was the problem with me having a different opinion. He was very frustrated with me.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby sloopjohnc » 27 Mar 2018, 22:45

Very Stable Baron wrote:I learned a similar lesson in 5th Grade when I ran for Student Body President against the most popular girl in my grade (and, therefore, the most popular girl in school). I suspect I had a broader base of support and I certainly ran an earnest campaign, but she was giving out campaign shoelaces and pencils and shit like that. I never stood a chance.


A chicken in every pot and two cars for every garage.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby sneelock » 27 Mar 2018, 23:08

I knew two kids who were running for Student council. one was a very earnest and likable young man I was very close to. the other was an outstanding student I shared a couple of classes with - a straight A student - bright, smart, very likable.

my friend gave his speech first. He gave a "Charlie Brown" sort of speech. He was earnest & likable but all down the front of his shirt. still, it was a good speech and he spent a lot of time on it. the bright straight A student spoke next. She turned the meeting into a pep rally. she called my friend a loser and called herself a winner. she got the crowd spelling and chanting her name. she popped - she locked - she shook her groove thing.

guess who won?

she was easily smarter and more qualified than my friend but she knew better than to run as a smart and qualified person. she ran as a winner who couldn't stand the sight of losers.

school really is a mini version of the real world.
Last edited by sneelock on 28 Mar 2018, 01:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby hippopotamus » 27 Mar 2018, 23:31

When I was a teenager I used to talk to my quieter friends whom I felt I could be be more honest with about how I felt utopias could be built in miniature communities. How we wouldn't need money, everything would be centralised. That really, the only reason communism had failed was because it had been tried on too large a scale. My utopia would be made of like-minded people, who would probably all be vegetarian because I didn't know anyone who would volunteer to kill animals... and we could probably do without them. We would all tend our own land. I don't think I ever voiced these ideas to anyone seriously, and I think I forgot about them.

I've shifted a LEETLE bit closer to the right. I still haven't had the guts to Actually become a vegetarian. And I have at least come to my senses that there a group of like-minded people doesn't exist.

Still today I saw a sign near my house

"Co-Housing

an attempt to create a neughbourhood of good neighbours offering greater mutual support than normal life"

then a drawing of different buildings wit the signs "transition retirement", "A fairer society co housing", "issue based co-housing"

"Launch and public meeting"

I like that I've found myself in a place where these signs are put up, and these things happen. I might have changed, but not too much.

I also used to think that feminism could be left well-enough alone. I thought that a sign of real equality would be not to fight, because you didn't need to fight.
I completely disagree now.
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nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby PresMuffley » 27 Mar 2018, 23:55

Seemed like a swell idea when I was 5:

Image

I'm honestly struggling to come up with anything more substantial. I've been far left since my teens, getting farther all the time it seems. The only major difference now being that I can articulate my beliefs in a more comprehensive manner.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby sloopjohnc » 28 Mar 2018, 00:28

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I used to believe that people would make good choices if they only knew the truth.


:lol:

Which is why you still post on BCB, right?

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Quaco » 28 Mar 2018, 01:11

hippopotamus wrote:I've shifted a LEETLE bit closer to the right. I still haven't had the guts to Actually become a vegetarian.

Do it this year.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Belle Lettre » 28 Mar 2018, 07:46

I remain unreconstructed.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Samoan » 28 Mar 2018, 08:59

Quaco wrote:
hippopotamus wrote:I've shifted a LEETLE bit closer to the right. I still haven't had the guts to Actually become a vegetarian.

Do it this year.

I'd think about it.
Vegetarians are a social nuisance when invited to eat at an omnivorous household.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Insouciant Western People » 28 Mar 2018, 09:12

NMB wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Right wingers are selfish wankers


They aren’t ?


They aren't.

I mean, clichés invariably have some foundation in reality, so yes some of them are. But certainly not all of them.
Jeff K wrote:Nick's still the man! No one has been as consistent as he has been over such a long period of time.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Deebank » 28 Mar 2018, 09:16

Belle Lettre wrote:I remain unreconstructed.


Me too, although I suppose I have softened the hard line pacifism of my youth and reckon that non-violent direct action is a young person’s pursuit. Well, that’s my excuse.
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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Samoan » 28 Mar 2018, 09:22

A belief in the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament has slowly but surely inched it's way right out of the window over the years.
bobzilla77 wrote:Those people who say the guitars sound like bagpipes have never really listened to bagpipes.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Diamond Dog » 28 Mar 2018, 09:24

Insouciant Western People wrote:
NMB wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Right wingers are selfish wankers


They aren’t ?


They aren't.

I mean, clichés invariably have some foundation in reality, so yes some of them are. But certainly not all of them.


However those on BCB certainly fit the bill. :D
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Insouciant Western People » 28 Mar 2018, 10:08

Diamond Dog wrote:However those on BCB certainly fit the bill. :D


:lol:

I'd reply properly, but I have to go out and burn £50 notes in front of some horrid poor people.
Jeff K wrote:Nick's still the man! No one has been as consistent as he has been over such a long period of time.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Toby » 28 Mar 2018, 10:11

Diamond Dog wrote:
Insouciant Western People wrote:
NMB wrote:
They aren’t ?


They aren't.

I mean, clichés invariably have some foundation in reality, so yes some of them are. But certainly not all of them.


However those on BCB certainly fit the bill. :D


Please provide examples.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby Toby » 28 Mar 2018, 10:14

For me, it's the usual sixth-form "OH GOD THE TORIES" that everyone my age had in the nineties, buttressed by the Blair years. This has been replaced by a moderate social conservatism gained over the last 15 years or so.

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Re: Political ideas you once had that now you're glad you don't.

Postby hippopotamus » 28 Mar 2018, 11:06

Samoan wrote:
Quaco wrote:
hippopotamus wrote:I've shifted a LEETLE bit closer to the right. I still haven't had the guts to Actually become a vegetarian.

Do it this year.

I'd think about it.
Vegetarians are a social nuisance when invited to eat at an omnivorous household.


Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?

Because ideally I'd like to be nice to All kinds of animals, sheep I don't know and friends that I do, I don't like the idea of inconveniencing anyone. Especially as I'm not convinced my abstinence will have any real effect on the world at large. And perhaps it's selfish, just for the sake of a clearer conscience and some kind of idea of righteousness to put everyone through that "dietary requirements" fiasco. It's not a dietary requirement.
The human body does fine without meat, but it's also a little easier to be healthy and have it.

Still, I do a lot of things because I think it's a good thing to do even if it's not going to make a big difference to everyone, and maybe at a personal or societal inconvenience. And maybe each person can be a role model to another. I think a statistically skewed proportion of my friends are vegetarian. It's probably just a matter of time.
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?