selling out? ooh no art is a COMMERCIAL VENTURE

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35073
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: selling out

Postby yomptepi » 23 Mar 2018, 15:51

Whether there is any blame to be laid is neither here nor there. And to be fair to Lydon, he has done nothing but sell out his whole life. Sex Pistols re union tours, butter adverts, I'm a celebrity. He is a sell out. And he don't care.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 5343
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: selling out

Postby Darkness_Fish » 23 Mar 2018, 15:52

I'm assuming he's worth more than me, or at least could stand on the street with a cardboard sign with "Photo with Harvey Keitel: $10. Will felch for cash" slung around his neck. It'd be more dignified.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
Dr Markus
Posts: 17670
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: selling out

Postby Dr Markus » 23 Mar 2018, 15:55

yomptepi wrote:Whether there is any blame to be laid is neither here nor there. And to be fair to Lydon, he has done nothing but sell out his whole life. Sex Pistols re union tours, butter adverts, I'm a celebrity. He is a sell out. And he don't care.



He ruined your beautiful creation of Punk, didn't he yomp.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35073
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: selling out

Postby yomptepi » 23 Mar 2018, 15:57

He was never a punk Markus. Just a clown in an expensive woolly. He bought shame on us all.
Last edited by yomptepi on 23 Mar 2018, 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Dr Markus
Posts: 17670
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: selling out

Postby Dr Markus » 23 Mar 2018, 16:00

:lol:
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 11283
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: selling out

Postby The Modernist » 23 Mar 2018, 16:12

Is it any worse than doing a crappy film? They're all acting jobs aren't they?

There's a select band of artists you expect to be above doing such things, but generally it doesn't bother me.

User avatar
The Beatles
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17417
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: selling out

Postby The Beatles » 23 Mar 2018, 16:15

A question for you all, then, seeing as you're being so shoulder-shruggy and 'so what?' cool about this theme:

If an artist creates something great, is there nothing they can do later that can adversely affect how you feel about this achievement? (leaving aside terrible stuff like child abuse for now - thinking strictly commercial work)
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 31964
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: selling out

Postby Goat Boy » 23 Mar 2018, 16:22

Rod Stewart
LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 5343
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: selling out

Postby Darkness_Fish » 23 Mar 2018, 16:28

The Modernist wrote:Is it any worse than doing a crappy film?

Yes, quite often it is. It's explicitly trying to transfer the popular appeal and cultural cachet of a particular person/film/thing onto a product or brand. They're taking something with some artistic merit, exploiting it, and gorging themselves on cash so that they can afford more coke and whores.

They don't even have the dignity to just look for cheaper whores.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23059
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: selling out

Postby Toby » 23 Mar 2018, 16:36

Unward Brank wrote:A question for you all, then, seeing as you're being so shoulder-shruggy and 'so what?' cool about this theme:

If an artist creates something great, is there nothing they can do later that can adversely affect how you feel about this achievement? (leaving aside terrible stuff like child abuse for now - thinking strictly commercial work)


I think this depends on the context of the artist's work. If Ralf Hutter suddenly started doing ads then I think it would be a betrayal of his Gesamtkunstwerk with Kraftwerk. It is his life.

But for artists who have finished something a long time ago and are essentially just making a bit of money on it then I see no real issue to be honest.

User avatar
LeBaron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 42724
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: selling out

Postby LeBaron » 23 Mar 2018, 16:48

Unward Brank wrote:A question for you all, then, seeing as you're being so shoulder-shruggy and 'so what?' cool about this theme:

If an artist creates something great, is there nothing they can do later that can adversely affect how you feel about this achievement? (leaving aside terrible stuff like child abuse for now - thinking strictly commercial work)


Not really, no. I can’t think of anything. But I don’t have any particular investment in the “integrity” or whatever of any particular artist.
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 15735
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: selling out

Postby bobzilla77 » 23 Mar 2018, 16:52

Unward Brank wrote:A question for you all, then, seeing as you're being so shoulder-shruggy and 'so what?' cool about this theme:

If an artist creates something great, is there nothing they can do later that can adversely affect how you feel about this achievement? (leaving aside terrible stuff like child abuse for now - thinking strictly commercial work)


Despite him having a few good songs, I can hardly stand to listen to Ted Nugent these days.

But somebody doing an advert for a commonly used product? I don't care. Fuck, the Who did beer commercials WHILE Townshend was in rehab. Clapton did too. The Who may have been worse because they did them for Schlitz.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

User avatar
Jumper K
Posts: 1343
Joined: 22 Oct 2014, 16:25

Re: selling out

Postby Jumper K » 23 Mar 2018, 16:53

Unward Brank wrote:A question for you all, then, seeing as you're being so shoulder-shruggy and 'so what?' cool about this theme:

If an artist creates something great, is there nothing they can do later that can adversely affect how you feel about this achievement? (leaving aside terrible stuff like child abuse for now - thinking strictly commercial work)

No. I’m genuinely interested as to why you think it should? I still get a visceral thrill seeing the Pistols on TOTP. It brings back dormant emotions and reminiscence of the time. A wanky butter commercial has no bearing on my reaction to it. Even Sir Dirk made some, frankly bobbins, films. Doesn’t mean I think less of Victim. Or him.

User avatar
The Beatles
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17417
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: selling out

Postby The Beatles » 23 Mar 2018, 16:54

Fair enough.

I just think there’s been a change over the last generation or two. The concept of ‘selling out’ is as alien to most people today as a love-in, or filterless cigarettes.
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 31964
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: selling out

Postby Goat Boy » 23 Mar 2018, 16:57

Well some folk can compartmentalise that shit. Others less so. I can understand why something might spoil somewhat other bits of an artists career but personally I don't really experience that
LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 12657
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: selling out

Postby Rayge » 23 Mar 2018, 17:03

Unward Brank wrote:Fair enough.

I just think there’s been a change over the last generation or two. The concept of ‘selling out’ is as alien to most people today as a love-in, or filterless cigarettes.


Are you sure, John? Can't say I've met many millennials, but I haven't particularly noticed a difference, and my years as a benighted sociologist have left me very wary of generalizations. Are you absolutely sure this isn't a 'kids today /not like in my day' thing.

As to your original question, I'm with Balls as far as past work is concerned - some of my favourite auteurs have turned out to be murderers and other crims - but seeing someone with a rep for art shilling for something as reprehensible as the financial industry (not that I ever watch ads anyway) would influence the way I looked at any work they might do in the future
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

User avatar
Minnie the Minx
funky thigh collector
Posts: 29466
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 16:00
Location: In the naughty North and in the sexy South

Re: selling out

Postby Minnie the Minx » 23 Mar 2018, 17:09

We are all prostitutes.
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

Dr Markus wrote:
Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?

User avatar
The Beatles
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17417
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: selling out

Postby The Beatles » 23 Mar 2018, 17:13

Rayge wrote:
Unward Brank wrote:Fair enough.

I just think there’s been a change over the last generation or two. The concept of ‘selling out’ is as alien to most people today as a love-in, or filterless cigarettes.


Are you sure, John? Can't say I've met many millennials, but I haven't particularly noticed a difference, and my years as a benighted sociologist have left me very wary of generalizations. Are you absolutely sure this isn't a 'kids today /not like in my day' thing.


I don't think so, no. I'm a big one for generalisations - that's where we differ. There's usually some wisdom in them.

Anyway the question arose because I looked up 'sell out' and it took me to several articles highlighting the difference in attitudes between millennials and Gen X/boomers. It's 'a thing', as kids today might say.

https://qz.com/751171/millennials-are-t ... lling-out/

People were shouting 'SELL OUT!' at every rocker in the 70s/80s, you must have noticed that? it doesn't happen today.

I'm not losing sleep over any of this, by the way. But it interests me. And there's definitely been a shift. Maybe it's just that there's a greater degree of apathy all-round these days.
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 31964
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: selling out

Postby Goat Boy » 23 Mar 2018, 17:15

Shit doesn't mean as much so how can you sell out?
LeBaron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

User avatar
LeBaron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 42724
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: selling out

Postby LeBaron » 23 Mar 2018, 17:26

Maybe the people of the 60s and 70s were more naive.
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.