"Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Toby
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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Toby » 12 Oct 2018, 13:08

The Modernist wrote:I think we tend to project all sorts of things on the secret service..partly because we have so little knowledge of who they are and what they do on a daily basis. Our ideas come mainly from fiction..so we tend to think of them as ruthless, efficient, with a limitless power. But they are still staffed by people, some of whom will be flawed and incompetent. These guys were foot soldiers..they were no genuises.



In "Last Hope Island", a book about exiled governments in Britain during WW2, it emerged that Germany's Abwehr, their Army intelligence, thought that MI6 was brilliant, mostly because of John Buchan books, which were hugely popular across Europe in the 20s and 30s. Of course, they were absolutely dreadful in reality.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Prof » 12 Oct 2018, 13:09

The Modernist wrote:I think we tend to project all sorts of things on the secret service..partly because we have so little knowledge of who they are and what they do on a daily basis. Our ideas come mainly from fiction..so we tend to think of them as ruthless, efficient, with a limitless power. But they are still staffed by people, some of whom will be flawed and incompetent. These guys were foot soldiers..they were no genuises.


Well, apparently one was a doctor but essentially I don't disagree, however any department that can lay it's hands on novichock could surely have devised a plan with a little more care than that.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Prof » 12 Oct 2018, 13:11

All that's missing is a photograph of them holding a street map of Salisbury pointing in the direction of the Skripal's house.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Modernist » 12 Oct 2018, 13:14

" Okay here's what you do. You comrade you knock on the door and then hide behind dustbin. Our satellite photographs show they have one by the house. And you comrade, when he answer the door, you punch him in mouth! Then you run!".

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Goat Boy » 12 Oct 2018, 13:42

People screw up. At every level and in every job. For conspiracy theorists though these screw ups aren’t actually screw ups, instead they are signs of the conspiracy itself. Evidence of manipulation, the hidden act. Rather than just accepting the obvious – people fuck up - it’s one of these weird quirks where they demonstrate some weird kind of faith and certainty in the ability of people to not make mistakes in these situations in order to preserve their belief in the underlying conspiracy.

As an example, on 9/11 the escort planes weren’t dispatched in time because They actually wanted the planes to crash into the towers. Reality: shit went down, somebody didn’t notify somebody else quickly enough and things were delayed.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Prof » 12 Oct 2018, 13:47

The Modernist wrote:" Okay here's what you do. You comrade you knock on the door and then hide behind dustbin. Our satellite photographs show they have one by the house. And you comrade, when he answer the door, you punch him in mouth! Then you run!".


I see you're coming round to my way of thinking. :)

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 12 Oct 2018, 13:51

Goat Boy wrote:
As an example, on 9/11 the escort planes weren’t dispatched in time because They actually wanted the planes to crash into the towers. Reality: shit went down, somebody didn’t notify somebody else quickly enough and things were delayed.


You've really done your homework!
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Goat Boy » 12 Oct 2018, 13:58

*winks*
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby harvey k-tel » 12 Oct 2018, 14:08

The Modernist wrote:" Okay here's what you do. You comrade you knock on the door and then hide behind dustbin. Our satellite photographs show they have one by the house. And you comrade, when he answer the door, you punch him in mouth! Then you run!".


"Ach! Foiled by moose and squirrel!"
If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Modernist » 12 Oct 2018, 15:20

Goat Boy wrote: it’s one of these weird quirks where they demonstrate some weird kind of faith and certainty in the ability of people to not make mistakes in these situations in order to preserve their belief in the underlying conspiracy.
.


Exactly.
Jimbo asked earlier why we didn't take on the points the article was making. I didn't bother because the points were so facile and easily countered that it felt like taking candy off a baby. One of the points the article makes is to ask why there isn't cctv footage of these guys for every minute of their journey. But this assumes a) that there are cctv cameras on every street corner in an ordinary residential part of town b) that they would all be working. But anyone with half a brain could tell you that neither would be at all likely and so to find this assumption coming from a 'supposedly 'serious' journalist undermines the entire credibility of the article. Not that the rest of it was any better.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Prof » 12 Oct 2018, 20:09

But there is a load of CCTV footage. Hundreds of hours of it.
Here they are just casually browsing in a the window of a coin and stamp shop. Minutes after the chemical has been placed

Image

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 15 Oct 2018, 04:54

Image
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 18 Oct 2018, 04:05

[youtube]JA8n9fm5fwE&t=0s[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA8n9fm5fwE&t=0s

See that "=0s" at the tail of the YouTube video address? Unless I'm doing something wrong, when an additional = is at the address end I cannot properly post a video. I find this hindrance especially attached to more controversial videos. I also see this as a tool of the "man" to censor the internet, a la Alex Jones. And since this is a video which debunks the very current global warning scare report from the UN's IPPC, if I were the "man" I'd try and slow the info flow down, and then just fucking ban it.

Nonetheless, if you are interested and concerned about the global climate crisis and disturbed that there are some who still don't believe it, it would behoove you to see just what "deniers" are saying, even if to know where your crazy conservative relative is coming from next Thanksgiving.

So click on the longer URL above and that should take you directly to YouTube (for now :? ) where you might learn something, maybe even that you are right, deniers are all a bunch of kooks.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 18 Oct 2018, 09:56

A twist of sorts in the unofficial Skripal story in that I was surprised to read on his blog that Craig Murray, the go-to guy for the alternative view of the matter agrees now that the two men in Salisbury are probably not whom they said they were, that they probably were using pseudonyms.

It is now a near certainty that Boshirov and Petrov are indeed fake identities. If the two were real people, it is inconceivable that by now their identities would not have been fully established with details of their history, lives, family and milieu. I do not apologize for exercising all due caution, rather than enthusiasm, about a narrative promoted to increase international tension with Russia, but am now convinced Petrov and Boshirov were not who they claimed.


It's odd, however, notes Murray, that the two are listed on the UK and European arrest warrants under their original fake names, Boshirov and Petrov and not under the names of the Russian spies claimed by Bellingcat, Chepiga or Mishkin.

Murray proposes that the two men we see in the Salisbury videos and photos somehow be arrested and brought to England for trial but only under these conditions

1) A fully fair and open trial before a jury.
2) The entire trial to be fully public. No closed sessions nor secret evidence and no reporting restrictions.
3) No restrictions on witnesses who may be called, including the Skripals, Pablo Miller, Christopher Steele and other former and current members of the security services.
4) No restrictions on disclosure – all relevant material held by government must be given to the defense.


What do you think?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... d-mishkin/
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 13 Nov 2018, 09:02

World War I: An Illustrated Guide to Propaganda

https://off-guardian.org/2018/11/12/wor ... ropaganda/

These stories are not unique cases from a remote war. The same methods are constantly rinsed and repeated, the mentality in our ruling elites is the same, and the risk of a major conflict is as great today as in 1914.

These examples concentrate mostly on British/American perception management and propaganda. First of all, because they are masters of the art, and secondly, as victors they still dominate the narrative.

Ten Commandments of War Propaganda:

We do not want war.
The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
The enemy is the face of the devil.
We defend a noble cause, not our own interest.
The enemy systematically commits cruelties; our mishaps are involuntary.
The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
Artists and intellectuals back our cause.
Our cause is sacred.
All who doubt our propaganda, are traitors.



The WWI Conspiracy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tclAbWvBt70&t=1567s
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 23 Nov 2018, 16:17

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 26 Nov 2018, 12:54

RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE??? Fucking British are the interfere-ers!!! Just take a minute and look at how in this one example - as clear as day - this British group interfered in Spanish politics. Mueller wishes he had something this clear cut on the Russians.

Greetings. We are Anonymous.

We have obtained a large number of documents relating to the activities of the ‘Integrity Initiative’ project that was launched back in the fall of 2015 and funded by the British government. The declared goal of the project is to counteract Russian propaganda and the hybrid warfare of Moscow. Hiding behind benevolent intentions, Britain has in fact created a large-scale information secret service in Europe, the United States and Canada, which consists of representatives of political, military, academic and journalistic communities with the think tank in London at the head of it.

As part of the project Britain has time and again intervened into domestic affairs of independent European states. A most demonstrative example is operation ‘Moncloa’ in Spain. Britain set to prevent Pedro Baños from appointment to the post of Director of Spain’s Department of Homeland Security. It took the Spanish cluster of the Integrity Initiative only a few hours to accomplish the task.

https://www.scribd.com/document/3921956 ... r-08-06-18


Image

https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/ope ... ainst-all/
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Modernist » 26 Nov 2018, 13:15

Jimbo wrote:

Murray proposes that the two men we see in the Salisbury videos and photos somehow be arrested and brought to England for trial but only under these conditions

1) A fully fair and open trial before a jury.
2) The entire trial to be fully public. No closed sessions nor secret evidence and no reporting restrictions.
3) No restrictions on witnesses who may be called, including the Skripals, Pablo Miller, Christopher Steele and other former and current members of the security services.
4) No restrictions on disclosure – all relevant material held by government must be given to the defense.


What do you think?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... d-mishkin/


I think it's a pointless pie in the sky proposal. The chances of Russia allowing the two men to be extradited under those, or indeed any other, conditions are zero.

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby Jimbo » 26 Nov 2018, 13:19

The Modernist wrote:
Jimbo wrote:

Murray proposes that the two men we see in the Salisbury videos and photos somehow be arrested and brought to England for trial but only under these conditions

1) A fully fair and open trial before a jury.
2) The entire trial to be fully public. No closed sessions nor secret evidence and no reporting restrictions.
3) No restrictions on witnesses who may be called, including the Skripals, Pablo Miller, Christopher Steele and other former and current members of the security services.
4) No restrictions on disclosure – all relevant material held by government must be given to the defense.


What do you think?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... d-mishkin/


I think it's a pointless pie in the sky proposal. The chances of Russia allowing the two men to be extradited under those, or indeed any other, conditions are zero.


Link please. I mean, how do you know? Excepting for Russian congenital sneakiness, how do you know? Not to mention that Murray is making sarcastic fun of the British knowing full well they'd never agree to such an open hearing or trial. It is a zero percent chance that Britain would allow these actually normal terms.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: "Me Jimbo. Me know truth."

Postby The Modernist » 26 Nov 2018, 13:58

How do I know? Because I can't think of one single example in their whole history when they've complied with such a request.