Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Apr 2018, 08:28

yomptepi wrote:I don't think the situations in the US and the UK are even remotely similar Davey. In the UK we have a campaign of disruption, orchestrated and organised by a political party and its supporters in open view. Children are being used for political ends, being refused the right to make their own decisions and openly debate with any cause that is not approved by the Corbyn administration. It is a deliberate and sordid attempt to keep children ignorant and ill informed, and to make sure they keep singing the party song.


Sounds like a bunch of hyperbole to me.

Give me numbers. How many incidents?
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby yomptepi » 02 Apr 2018, 10:24

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
What they need is a war, toughen them up, they wouldn't be complaining about Jim Davidson calling Black people Darkies then would they.


Not really the problem as it is not 1952.

However it would be gratifying if their sole reason for wanting Corbyn wasn't that his names fits the tune to a pop song. Wouldn't it?


Of all the things to attack them for putting his name to White Stripes guitar riff has got to be the most important.


It is certainly the most pertinent. Just imagine that funny old hipster uncle who promises to pay off all of your debts, and still knows his way around Glastonbury!! Too good to be true. I am surprised he didn't offer them sweets.
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 02 Apr 2018, 15:25

yomptepi wrote:Just imagine that funny old hipster uncle who promises to pay off all of your debts, and still knows his way around Glastonbury!! Too good to be true. I am surprised he didn't offer them sweets.


:)
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby The Modernist » 02 Apr 2018, 15:29

BEEF BEE 'E' wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Just imagine that funny old hipster uncle who promises to pay off all of your debts, and still knows his way around Glastonbury!! Too good to be true. I am surprised he didn't offer them sweets.


:)


It's completely irresponsible of him to try and address the young, after all most of them don't even own property! Why can't he be like a normal politician and only address the middle aged well off?

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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby yomptepi » 02 Apr 2018, 16:51

The Modernist wrote:
BEEF BEE 'E' wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Just imagine that funny old hipster uncle who promises to pay off all of your debts, and still knows his way around Glastonbury!! Too good to be true. I am surprised he didn't offer them sweets.


:)


It's completely irresponsible of him to try and address the young, after all most of them don't even own property! Why can't he be like a normal politician and only address the middle aged well off?


I wouldn't call it addressing them. More like bribing them with promises he has no intention of keeping. Emily Thornberry concedes that it would cost well over £100 billion to cancel current University debt. Those poor gullible students have more chance of winning the lottery.
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Copehead » 02 Apr 2018, 17:48

yomptepi wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
BEEF BEE 'E' wrote:
:)


It's completely irresponsible of him to try and address the young, after all most of them don't even own property! Why can't he be like a normal politician and only address the middle aged well off?


I wouldn't call it addressing them. More like bribing them with promises he has no intention of keeping. Emily Thornberry concedes that it would cost well over £100 billion to cancel current University debt. Those poor gullible students have more chance of winning the lottery.


The debt will be cancelled by whoever is in power eventually as it isn't worth the bother of trying to collect it from people who are never going to earn the sort of money needed to repay it.

Obviously it would cost nothing to cancel university debt if some Tory twat hadn't sold it to a debt collection agency.

And if you are going to tell lies at least make the plausible, Corbyn never said he would look at cancelling existing debt he said he would stop charging fees from now on and look at the feasibility of wiping out the already accrued debt.

As the people he was addressing - students and former students - are more intelligent than you I am sure they understood what he meant even if the charitable explanation is that you didn't.
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Jun 2018, 15:51

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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Copehead » 02 Jun 2018, 16:25

There was an interesting "Long Read" article in the Guardian this week about the ACLU and the protection of 1st amendment rights at the expense of other amendment rights ( specifically 14th if I remember correctly ) and the internal debate in the organization about going to such great lengths to protect the freedom of speech, even in extreme cases, of people who, if they gained power, would say thank you very much and send ACLU members off to the gas chambers while the merrily destroyed the first amendment and the constitution.

Is that naïve, idealistic, brave, stupid, admirable?

It is the fetishisation of a right that has never been absolute even in the USA and certainly wasn't equally applied to all citizens until very recently in its history if it even applied fairly at all now.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/31/how-the-resurgence-of-white-supremacy-in-the-us-sparked-a-war-over-free-speech-aclu-charlottesville
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby LeBaron » 02 Jun 2018, 16:55

I'll have to read it later, but the ACLU has had a VERY checkered record lately.
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Copehead » 02 Jun 2018, 17:01

LeBaron wrote:I'll have to read it later, but the ACLU has had a VERY checkered record lately.


They appear to be a completely admirable operation on the face of it but the article explains some of the weird tangles they get into having such a black and white view of free speech and the constitution
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Jimbo » 02 Jun 2018, 17:47

Copehead wrote:There was an interesting "Long Read" article in the Guardian this week about the ACLU


Interesting quandary the ACLU is in but as I read I was thinking that shit changes and the current right left thing will find some equilibrium someday soon and this will not be then end of America's free speech rights. Sure enough the article ends on a similar upbeat thought with this.

one lesson of America’s free-speech history is that entrenched norms do change.
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Re: Self-Proclaimed Antifascists Shut Down 'Alt-Right' Speech At Kings College London

Postby Copehead » 27 Jul 2018, 07:54

This is a good, balanced article about moral panic generated by the right around the idea of Free Speech:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/26/the-free-speech-panic-censorship-how-the-right-concocted-a-crisis
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