addiction

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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addiction

Postby ORORORO » 03 Mar 2018, 14:11

Is addiction in itself a bad thing? is the term only used to refer to harmful habits? can you be addicted to something that’s good for you?

If someone needs to play STATE OF WAR XV every day is that going to fuck them up?
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Re: addiction

Postby hippopotamus » 03 Mar 2018, 14:27

Well part of the definition is "needing without wanting" which implies it's not for the sake of pleasure just dependence.

I think being out of control of something will always be a Little bit bad. You know, even if you were addicted tk exercise even if you weren't anorexic or anything physical affecting you... it still would be difficult to find yourself irritable and angry out of your control if you weren't allowed to do it.
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Re: addiction

Postby ORORORO » 03 Mar 2018, 14:36

What about satisfying/managing addiction with controlled doses? If junkies are put onto programs where this is the approach then they don’t have to go through the nightmare of withdrawal and they’re less likely to OD.
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Re: addiction

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 03 Mar 2018, 14:41

You are still managing a need.

Needing to do something, whether it’s good for you or not isn’t ideal.
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Re: addiction

Postby Goat Boy » 03 Mar 2018, 14:58

My BCB addiction has ruined my life
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Re: addiction

Postby Hugh » 03 Mar 2018, 15:00

Goat Boy wrote:My BCB addiction has ruined my life


Your BCB addiction has ruined my life as well.

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Re: addiction

Postby Goat Boy » 03 Mar 2018, 15:08

MAN THAT'S HARSH
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Re: addiction

Postby ORORORO » 03 Mar 2018, 15:18

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:You are still managing a need.

Needing to do something, whether it’s good for you or not isn’t ideal.


Of course it’s not. But sometimes it’s better than the alternative.
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Re: addiction

Postby ORORORO » 03 Mar 2018, 15:21

The arguments against feeding addiction are often more anti-big pharma than pro-health. The opioid crisis in the US, for example.
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Re: addiction

Postby ORORORO » 03 Mar 2018, 15:29

hippopotamus wrote:You know, even if you were addicted tk exercise even if you weren't anorexic or anything physical affecting you... it still would be difficult to find yourself irritable and angry out of your control if you weren't allowed to do it.


When people say they’re addicted to exercise, isn’t that a misuse of the term?
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Re: addiction

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 03 Mar 2018, 15:36

Hugh wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:My BCB addiction has ruined my life


Your BCB addiction has ruined my life as well.


:D :D :D
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Re: addiction

Postby Goat Boy » 03 Mar 2018, 15:37

There's a puritanical attitude towards addiction that does more damage than good at times. *general comment* Too many people see addiction as something that needs to be overcome rather something that needs to be managed. *general comment*
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Re: addiction

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 03 Mar 2018, 15:46

THE NIGHT BEAK wrote:Is addiction in itself a bad thing? is the term only used to refer to harmful habits? can you be addicted to something that’s good for you?

If someone needs to play STATE OF WAR XV every day is that going to fuck them up?


The answer to your question is going to be found less in this example or that one and more in the definition of addiction.

wikipedia's seems fine to me.

Addiction is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences


Using that definition, addictions lead to bad outcomes so in general they are bad.

Things can get a little more subtle if the activity, for example, exercise, has positive outcomes like better cardiac health, but negative consequences as well such an increased risk of injury. Then you have to weigh the disadvantages against the advantages.


You can discuss and define addictions in terms of internal matters like needs and wants (instead of outcomes) , but there are problems with that. You need to breathe and probably also want to as well. Does that make breathing an addiction? Without looking at the outcomes of the activity, you can't say that much.

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Re: addiction

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 03 Mar 2018, 15:47

THE NIGHT BEAK wrote:
hippopotamus wrote:You know, even if you were addicted tk exercise even if you weren't anorexic or anything physical affecting you... it still would be difficult to find yourself irritable and angry out of your control if you weren't allowed to do it.


When people say they’re addicted to exercise, isn’t that a misuse of the term?


I'd say it is. OK, if exercise is your greatest priority in life. you'd be pissed if you were prohibited to do it.

If we reserve 'addiction' for substance abuse, and the ensuing peaks in dopamine in certain brain areas, then exercise, as far as I know, would't count.

But, two things: exercise on a regular basis increases the release of endogenous endorphines, and these vaguely resemble opiates in their effects - but these are by far not as strong and prolonged as morphine would bring about. Endorphines are degraded much faster.

Second: exercise can counteract feelings of depression. It is believed that it increases neurogenesis (the lifelong birth of new nerve cells (neurons) in a brain area called the hippocampus (one of two of such regions). Also, the newborn cells are richer in synaptic connections with other neurons in their vicinity. In this regard, exercise mimicks (in a number of people with depression) the effect of antidepressants.

Here's a piccie of the effect of sporting on neurogenesis (in the mouse, BTW):

Image
Exercise boosts neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus. The images above show newly-born neurons in the dentate gyri of a sedentary mouse (top) and a mouse that ran on a wheel (bottom), as viewed through different microscopes. The running mouse has more new neurons in the dentate gyrus compared to the sedentary mouse.


Lazarov et al. Trends in Neurosciences, 2010.
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Re: addiction

Postby Rayge » 03 Mar 2018, 15:50

hippopotamus wrote:Well part of the definition is "needing without wanting" which implies it's not for the sake of pleasure just dependence.

Need and want are unfortunately slippery terms.
I've been addicted to cannabis for the best part of 50 years. If for any reason I can't have any I am mildly irritable for a couple of days, and often find myself unconsciously reaching for something that is not there, but it's a perfectly manageable state, and disappears completely after three days or so. I once quit for six months in the 90s, partly to see what the effects of abstinence were, and I didn't really miss it after the first days. So there is a need of sorts, but it's a long way from overpowering.
That said, I prefer to be stoned, and it's rare that I find myself getting that way when I really don't want to, and the few times I am stoned and presented with a problem normally requiring sobriety I generally take it in my stride – it's not as if I have a challenging lifestyle :D : I don't drive, so that's not a problem, and I'm rarely if ever responsible for the safety and well-being of others. The way I think about things now is that I'll just carry on until my health collapses completely (no sign of that at the moment, still apparently pretty fit, especially considering most of my male antecedents were dead by my age) or the supplies of quality hashish run out (not interested in smoking the TLC-heavy rubbish sold as skunk), then get over it and do something else.
And something else about cannabis that I have noticed is that, unlike all the other drugs of addiction I have experienced at first or second hand, tolerance builds up slowly and dissipates very quickly if you stay away for just a day or two. I've never felt I'm taking a maintenance dose, I am always positively affected. And, unlike booze, say, the effect is more or less the same, just differing in degree.
I know a lot more about addiction these days than I did as a young man because of my relationship with Chip, an alcoholic with alcoholic parents (all three of whom were in recovery for decades when they died, a very rare distinction) and knowing people who had problems with opiates, cocaine, amphetamine or barbiturates, as well as booze, cigarettes and gambling. I stay well away from those.
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Re: addiction

Postby gash on ignore » 03 Mar 2018, 15:53

Goat Boy wrote:MAN THAT'S HARSH


Use menthol tobacco you goon.
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Re: addiction

Postby PresMuffley » 03 Mar 2018, 16:01

I smoke high-end bud everyday. On the rare occasion I run out (not legal in my state) I definitely feel a little shitty physically. My appetite becomes non-existent. I don't eat much anyway. Mentally, I become much more critical of others and generally irritated by minor things. I also lose motivation.

My solution to this is not to run out of bud. If that's a "bad" thing I don't give a fuck. Whatever gets you through the day...
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Re: addiction

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 03 Mar 2018, 16:15

THE NIGHT BEAK wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:You are still managing a need.

Needing to do something, whether it’s good for you or not isn’t ideal.


Of course it’s not. But sometimes it’s better than the alternative.


Sure. But your original question was: “Is addiction in itself a bad thing?”. I think it generally is to some degree. But that doesn’t mean that managing an addiction is always bad.
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Re: addiction

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 03 Mar 2018, 16:20

For those interested, here's a long introduction to addiction and its pathways in our brains:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 549070/#R1

There's a nice piece of not-so-trivial knowledge in there: according to the author, there are about 30,000,000 known chemical compounds; and about 100 of these are addictive substances.

(You can download a PDF of it, see top right at that page.)
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Re: addiction

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 03 Mar 2018, 16:58

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
THE NIGHT BEAK wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:You are still managing a need.

Needing to do something, whether it’s good for you or not isn’t ideal.


Of course it’s not. But sometimes it’s better than the alternative.


Sure. But your original question was: “Is addiction in itself a bad thing?”. I think it generally is to some degree. But that doesn’t mean that managing an addiction is always bad.


Wise words. There are lots of gray areas in between: sober - recreational and social use - regular use - something like: a bit dependent but not addicted - and fully addicted (with severe withdrawal symptoms as a danger).

And a person is so much more than what she or he ingests to feel better, I'd say.
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