Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

I prefer....

Jacob
13
33%
Jezzer
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Total votes: 40

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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Insouciant Western People » 11 Mar 2018, 20:44

Deebank wrote:
Nick wrote:
Deebank wrote:My old comrade Tony has been kicked out of the party again I see. Nick and his ilk should take comfort from that fact - even under Corbyn an anti-zionist Jewish agitator like Mr. Greenstein is still untouchable it seems.

Fight on TG you are a legend!


I was rather cheered by Greenstein being kicked out :D


That figures.

One of the real fighters against fascism who has actually faced down real violent anti-semitism.

Like I say - fight on TG.


:lol:

Oh please, have a word with yourself. Greenstein is on record with some shocking stuff. It's no surprise Labour binned him.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Belle Lettre » 11 Mar 2018, 20:47

Hamas didn't just appear from a vacuum, you know. You can't look at any of these things out of context. It's a clusterfuck whichever way you look at it.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Deebank » 11 Mar 2018, 21:24

Nick wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Nick wrote:
I was rather cheered by Greenstein being kicked out :D


That figures.

One of the real fighters against fascism who has actually faced down real violent anti-semitism.

Like I say - fight on TG.


:lol:

Oh please, have a word with yourself. Greenstein is on record with some shocking stuff. It's no surprise Labour binned him.


Know him do you? Or just swallow the cobblers you’re fed?
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Pansy Puff » 11 Mar 2018, 21:34

The crazy thing is, even after all these pages of debate, the answer is still Corbyn, It is never Rees Mogg, is it?
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Deebank » 11 Mar 2018, 21:41

K wrote:The crazy thing is, even after all these pages of debate, the answer is still Corbyn, It is never Rees Mogg, is it?


:)

Yep - and I’ve never been what you’d call a fan.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 11 Mar 2018, 22:45

Diamond Dog wrote:
Nick wrote: The Jewish vote for Labour has dropped drastically since Corbyn has become leader.


Is there any evidence of this?


It would be difficult to dig such small numbers of voters out of the massive, nearly 50%, increase in the Labour vote since Labour voted Jeremy Corbyn as leader, back up to 44% in the latest Survation poll; treat that information as you will but Survation were the only polling company to get the last election right which shows they are the best of a bad lot when it comes to choosing their samples.

Regardless no one can deny the massive surge in Labour support under Jeremy Corbyn, the Jewish vote is an irrelevance, if they want to believe extreme right wing propaganda that a man who has spent his whole life fighting racism in all its forms is an anti-Semite more fool them, it is meaningless in the larger scheme if sad.

Before Going to Uni I was very pro-Israel, that was pretty easy in the 70s and early 80s, and even after becoming a lefty it wasn't something I gave a whole lot of thought to, until I lived on the same corridor as Palestinian botanist called Ebir when I did my Masters and she sat me down and explained to me the realities of being a West Bank Palestinian. Things have got so much worse since then as Griff's posts show, they live under an occupying force that has become home to a minority inured to murderous violence without consequences.

A sad country in thrall to a right wing kleptocracy kept in power by fear, not only sad for the Palestinians shot on the streets and bulldozed from their homes but for the millions of decent Israelis who abhor this being done in their name.

A solution seems further away with each passing year
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 11 Mar 2018, 23:44

THE NIGHT BEAK wrote:
German Dave wrote:
Nick wrote:You think there aren't a lot of people, mostly on the left, who single out Israel as a central and fundamental evil in the world?


Are you serious, Nick? I honestly don't know anyone who "singles out Israel as a central and fundamental evil in the world."


:shock:

It positively defines quite a few people I know! It's a classic left-wing viewpoint. Israel is seen as an extension of the USA in the region.


The classic left wing view point was always unquestioning support of plucky Israel, at least until the mid 80s after Ariel Sharon's invasion of Lebanon started to erode support. Israel was set up as secular democracy and was usually run by left wing governments until the massive influx of dubiously Jewish Russians in the 80s and 90s.

You know the square root of fuck all about left wing politics.

How different to every other subject
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 11 Mar 2018, 23:48

Deebank wrote:
Nick wrote:That figures.

One of the real fighters against fascism who has actually faced down real violent anti-semitism.

Like I say - fight on TG.


:lol:

Oh please, have a word with yourself. Greenstein is on record with some shocking stuff. It's no surprise Labour binned him.


Shocking stuff? I suppose it is a shock to some people that a Jew can be left wing and anti-Zionist.

Not sure why considering the history of left wing thought and politics.

Labour's shabby treatment of Tony Greenstein is about the most anti-Semitic thing they have ever done so not surprised to see Nick applaud it :)
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby yomptepi » 12 Mar 2018, 00:17

Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Nick wrote: The Jewish vote for Labour has dropped drastically since Corbyn has become leader.


Is there any evidence of this?


It would be difficult to dig such small numbers of voters out of the massive, nearly 50%, increase in the Labour vote since Labour voted Jeremy Corbyn as leader, back up to 44% in the latest Survation poll;


Crumbs. If he is 50% more popular than you thought Ed Miliband was, then he must be heading for a 300 seat majority at the next election. Which means you think Labour will win at least 500 seats.

I shall be watching with interest!!
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 12 Mar 2018, 00:37

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Is there any evidence of this?


It would be difficult to dig such small numbers of voters out of the massive, nearly 50%, increase in the Labour vote since Labour voted Jeremy Corbyn as leader, back up to 44% in the latest Survation poll;


Crumbs. If he is 50% more popular than you thought Ed Miliband was, then he must be heading for a 300 seat majority at the next election. Which means you think Labour will win at least 500 seats.

I shall be watching with interest!!


Me too.

You can argue about the fine numbers but not about the direction of travel, it has been dramatic. Started by his acceptance on the left and in Labour and last election took him to the mainstream and now Labour are hitting polling figures only Blair hit post the post war period of 2 party politics and then only once in 1997.

The weird thing about Corbyn is the more people are exposed to him the more they seem to like him when I always assumed he would kryptonite to Joe Public.

Who could have guessed that saying what you mean in long boring detail while smiling like your favourite uncle could be a winning strategy?

People really were fed up with shiny suited spivs and people who start sentences with "Listen...., look....., I've been clear........" etc, there will always be a few unthinking, forelock tugging drones like you around impressed by being talked down to in cut glass accents by public schoolboys but your numbers appear to dwindling.

Happy days.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby yomptepi » 12 Mar 2018, 07:23

Copehead wrote:The weird thing about Corbyn is the more people are exposed to him the more they seem to like him when I always assumed he would kryptonite to Joe Public.

.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Which is no doubt why he has scuttled off to you tube to make his " pronouncements " rather than face the press. I think your idea that he is getting more popular is laughable. Half the country still don't know who he is, because he hides behind even more disgusting people, like Emily Thornberry and John McDonnell. Although I note the latter has also retreated behind the safety of you tube sermons of late, again , rather than have his cant exposed for the nonsense it is.

Neither seem to understand that 500,000 members may be a lot, even if most of them are children. But you need 11 million votes, and the other ten and half million people do need to be engaged with. Even if they are in the North.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby yomptepi » 12 Mar 2018, 07:24

Copehead wrote:
People really were fed up with shiny suited spivs and people who start sentences with "Listen...., look....., I've been clear........" etc, there will always be a few unthinking, forelock tugging drones like you around impressed by being talked down to in cut glass accents by public schoolboys but your numbers appear to dwindling.

Happy days.

That still sounds like every politician from every party to me. Corbyn is a repeat offender as far as this sort thing is concerned.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 12 Mar 2018, 08:02

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:The weird thing about Corbyn is the more people are exposed to him the more they seem to like him when I always assumed he would kryptonite to Joe Public.

.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Which is no doubt why he has scuttled off to you tube to make his " pronouncements " rather than face the press. I think your idea that he is getting more popular is laughable. Half the country still don't know who he is, because he hides behind even more disgusting people, like Emily Thornberry and John McDonnell. Although I note the latter has also retreated behind the safety of you tube sermons of late, again , rather than have his cant exposed for the nonsense it is.

Neither seem to understand that 500,000 members may be a lot, even if most of them are children. But you need 11 million votes, and the other ten and half million people do need to be engaged with. Even if they are in the North.


Why should he face a press run by foreign, or foreign domiciled right wing extremists? they aren't part of the democratic process in this country.

Much better to get his message directly to voters, can't imagine why you'd have a problem with that.

Laugh all you want it is undoubtedly true, Labour were 20 points behind the Tories at the start of last year's election campaign and ended up less than 2 points behind and since then they have moved into a lead.

The only realistic view of why that happened is that people were exposed to Corbyn and his program unfiltered due to the requirement for equal time during election campaigns on TV and people both liked him and his program, I can't think of another reason for this wholly remarkable and quite unprecedented turn around in political fortunes.

He is popular, I think only Nicola Sturgeon is more popular, but you don't like her either.

I fear you are in for a longish period of disappointment my dear chap.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Copehead » 12 Mar 2018, 08:07

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
People really were fed up with shiny suited spivs and people who start sentences with "Listen...., look....., I've been clear........" etc, there will always be a few unthinking, forelock tugging drones like you around impressed by being talked down to in cut glass accents by public schoolboys but your numbers appear to dwindling.

Happy days.

That still sounds like every politician from every party to me. Corbyn is a repeat offender as far as this sort thing is concerned.


that's the thing he is noticeably different, hence his burgeoning popularity.

It is decidedly odd but there you go, quite heartening really that people are turning their backs on spin and lies
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby yomptepi » 12 Mar 2018, 09:06

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
People really were fed up with shiny suited spivs and people who start sentences with "Listen...., look....., I've been clear........" etc, there will always be a few unthinking, forelock tugging drones like you around impressed by being talked down to in cut glass accents by public schoolboys but your numbers appear to dwindling.

Happy days.

That still sounds like every politician from every party to me. Corbyn is a repeat offender as far as this sort thing is concerned.


that's the thing he is noticeably different, hence his burgeoning popularity.

It is decidedly odd but there you go, quite heartening really that people are turning their backs on spin and lies


Utter rubbish.

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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 12 Mar 2018, 09:25

K wrote:The crazy thing is, even after all these pages of debate, the answer is still Corbyn, It is never Rees Mogg, is it?

The crazy thing is actually 27 pages of this shit.
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Toby » 12 Mar 2018, 12:52

The idea that Corbyn is going to be any different from previous constituents if he is, god forbid, elected is laughable.

This isn't about left and right, it's about the trappings of power and what comes with it. If Corbyn became PM, he would find himself in a sludge of miscommunication, lies, making the best worst decision and spin just like any other politician before him. He might have a honeymoon period and try to pass some acts, but he would be bogged down by civil service Mandarins time and time again.

I don't see any evidence that things would be any different.

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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby yomptepi » 12 Mar 2018, 12:58

Toby wrote:The idea that Corbyn is going to be any different from previous constituents if he is, god forbid, elected is laughable.

This isn't about left and right, it's about the trappings of power and what comes with it. If Corbyn became PM, he would find himself in a sludge of miscommunication, lies, making the best worst decision and spin just like any other politician before him. He might have a honeymoon period and try to pass some acts, but he would be bogged down by civil service Mandarins time and time again.

I don't see any evidence that things would be any different.


Even if he gets Copehead's proposed 500 seat majority?

Surely he could do as he pleased?
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Goat Boy » 12 Mar 2018, 17:07

http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/12/good-old-tony-greenstein/

Good to know that anti semitism doesn’t hurt Jews
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Re: Rees Mogg or Corbyn?

Postby Deebank » 12 Mar 2018, 21:24

Goat Boy wrote:http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/12/good-old-tony-greenstein/

Good to know that anti semitism doesn’t hurt Jews


I’m impressed, the old git must be behaving himself if that’s the best you can find :lol:
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