Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 15:43

Very Stable Baron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Very Stable Baron wrote:
The bail jumping case is in no way moot. That charges are no longer pending doesn’t change the fact he is (apparently) accused of jumping bail at a time when they were pending. Once charges go away, you aren’t allowed to holler King’s X.

I have mixed feelings about Wikileaks, and I’m not up to speed on the state of the accusations against him. But in my view, if you’re going to break laws as a matter of principle, then you must be willing to do time as a matter of principle. So Yomp is basically on point.


They were waiting for a judge to make a ruling as to whether he was still wanted for bail jumping and she ruled that he was. So it was possible that the judge could have rescinded the charge but (IMO for political reasons) didn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... st-warrant


Why would you assume something was for political reasons when there is a strong, nearly unassailable legal reason?


If she could have easily dropped the charge then why didn't she? There is whiff of vindictiveness as you can see even here on our board.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Minnie the Minx » 16 Feb 2018, 15:44

Oh shut up you fucking flabby brained knobhead.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Feb 2018, 15:50

Assange’s interest doesn’t lie in protecting any of us. It was only a matter of time before the “good guy with a gun” argument, data version.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby LeBaron » 16 Feb 2018, 15:50

Jimbo wrote:If she could have easily dropped the charge then why didn't she? There is whiff of vindictiveness as you can see even here on our board.


First, you are assuming that she could haven “easily” dropped the charge. Assange’s lawyers seem to think they can appeal. Do you know whether the prosecution could appeal that decision, citing what I imagine is a nearly axiomatic tenet of law? Second, these decisions are not based on whim. Here, dismissal of the underlying charges has almost certainly NOT rendered the bail jumping case moot. Finally, it’s evident you’ve got the question exactly wrong. Granting your (probably false) assumption that this is a matter left to the whimsy of a judge, why would she reward someone for publically flouting judicial process? The process that the criminal justice system relies on for its daily operation?
Last edited by LeBaron on 16 Feb 2018, 15:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Feb 2018, 15:51

Jumbo - I know that you like to romanticize “outsiders” - so I see why you fall for this shit. But it’s pretty clear that Assange selectively decides who his targets are. He’s a propagandist. Only the dimmest of the dim still buy the idea that Wikileaks is about bringing truth to light.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Geezee » 16 Feb 2018, 15:51

Nick wrote:I don't support Wikileaks. Dumping confidential documents wholesale into the public domain is not only not good journalism, I'm not even sure it's journalism at all.

And that's before we get to the obvious primary point that there's a good case that Wikileaks has willfully endangered lives. There's a reckless abdication of ethics and responsibility, things that should be sacred to a journalist.


I can see this - partly - although I feel Wikileaks has done more "good" than "evil", on balance - and I'm not convinced lives have been endangered and it is critical to have outlets for whistleblowers. But either way, whatever one feels about Wikileaks, it has literally nothing to do with this case, or whether or not he should be "free".
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Insouciant Western People » 16 Feb 2018, 16:06

Geezee wrote:it is critical to have outlets for whistleblowers.


Geezee wrote:But either way, whatever one feels about Wikileaks, it has literally nothing to do with this case, or whether or not he should be "free".


I agree absolutely with both of these.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Feb 2018, 16:16

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Jumbo - I know that you like to romanticize “outsiders” - so I see why you fall for this shit. But it’s pretty clear that Assange selectively decides who his targets are. He’s a propagandist. Only the dimmest of the dim still buy the idea that Wikileaks is about bringing truth to light.


This.

The CIA and FBI don't have time to spy on you or I to check out what kind of Furries orgy meetups we're checking out anyway. So who is he protecting? Activists being persecuted for their politics? Show me one.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 16:18

Very Stable Baron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:If she could have easily dropped the charge then why didn't she? There is whiff of vindictiveness as you can see even here on our board.


First, you are assuming that she could haven “easily” dropped the charge.


If I eliminate "easily" would my sentence be true, that she could have dropped the charge?
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 16:24

toomanyhatz wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Jumbo - I know that you like to romanticize “outsiders” - so I see why you fall for this shit. But it’s pretty clear that Assange selectively decides who his targets are. He’s a propagandist. Only the dimmest of the dim still buy the idea that Wikileaks is about bringing truth to light.


This.

The CIA and FBI don't have time to spy on you or I to check out what kind of Furries orgy meetups we're checking out anyway. So who is he protecting? Activists being persecuted for their politics? Show me one.


You guys are just pissed about the DNC leaks.

To be honest I don't know why he never leaked shit about Trump, maybe he did, I don't know, but had he leaked shit about the Republicans you'd be singing a different tune. 9/11 truthers don't like him either because they're sure there must be 9/11 files which he's never exposed.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Feb 2018, 16:35

Jimbo wrote:You guys are just pissed about the DNC leaks.

To be honest I don't know why he never leaked shit about Trump, maybe he did, I don't know, but had he leaked shit about the Republicans you'd be singing a different tune.


Ah, the court of bias confirmation is in session again.

Hate to break it to ya, but that's not how the law works.
sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Feb 2018, 16:57

I said the same shit about Assange long before the DNC leaks.

Let me ask you this: Ever see Wikileaks dump any embarrassing Russian documents out?
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 17:25

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: Let me ask you this: Ever see Wikileaks dump any embarrassing Russian documents out?


Apparently so.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11893886
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Feb 2018, 17:31

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:You guys are just pissed about the DNC leaks.

To be honest I don't know why he never leaked shit about Trump, maybe he did, I don't know, but had he leaked shit about the Republicans you'd be singing a different tune.


Ah, the court of bias confirmation is in session again.

Hate to break it to ya, but that's not how the law works.


I'll even go you one better and answer this charge directly. Yes, I'd be absolutely thrilled if he had released something damaging to Trump. Anything damaging to Trump is good for the nation, frankly.

I wouldn't be "singing a different tune," though. I would not expect Assange's legal treatment to be based on my personal opinion.

And therein lies the difference.
sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 17:46

I gotta hit the hay but one point before bed I'll make about Assange is that he's got a lot of balls. To go up against the world's most powerful people and out them, exposing their scams and secrets, that would give me 100 MPH gale in the face pause. Yeah, he's dodging the law but he's seen what they do to whistleblowers and he's the king of whistleblowers! The British judge says just come in and face your charges. Having seen all he's seen, one thing Assange isn't is naive. He knows they want to fuck him. He's probably seen the warrants! Run, Julian. Run!
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Geezee » 16 Feb 2018, 17:50

Jimbo wrote: 9/11 truthers don't like him either because they're sure there must be 9/11 files which he's never exposed.


There's so much unintentional comedy in the image that this conjures up.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Jimbo » 16 Feb 2018, 17:54

Geezee wrote:
Jimbo wrote: 9/11 truthers don't like him either because they're sure there must be 9/11 files which he's never exposed.


There's so much unintentional comedy in the image that this conjures up.


Pretty astute observation for a guy with no sense of humor.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby LeBaron » 16 Feb 2018, 17:57

Jimbo wrote:
Very Stable Baron wrote:
Jimbo wrote:If she could have easily dropped the charge then why didn't she? There is whiff of vindictiveness as you can see even here on our board.


First, you are assuming that she could haven “easily” dropped the charge.


If I eliminate "easily" would my sentence be true, that she could have dropped the charge?


Not much more true, no—primarily for reasons suggested in what I’ve already written. Sadly, I don’t have time right now to re-write them.
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Feb 2018, 18:43

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: Let me ask you this: Ever see Wikileaks dump any embarrassing Russian documents out?


Apparently so.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11893886


You had to dig back to 2010 for that!
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Re: Should Julian Assange be free to leave?

Postby Sneelock » 16 Feb 2018, 18:43

it's hard to argue with Nick's take. Keeping in mind, Chelsea Manning is a hero in my book. I think that "Collateral Damage" material SHOULD have been in the public knowledge gene pool and that Manning's moral compass was in the right place in taking steps towards putting it there.

I don't think Assange would know a moral compass if it bit him in the ass. Get a load of this...

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/jul ... ton-trump/
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