Shooting in Florida

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Geezee
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Geezee » 21 Feb 2018, 09:19

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I think this IS a beginning.

“Sandy Hook” is precisely what is powering this. Everyone now realizes that nothing will happen without a mass mobilization.

Get ready for the wave.


"Everyone" now realises this? Sandy Hook is over 5 years ago. Why didn't they realise this 5 years ago, when it actually happened, and after countless previous massacres? What's so different now? I'd love to share this optimism, but I have none of it and nor do I see evidence of anything happening. I see a much stronger likelihood that Trump himself might pull a rabbit out of the bag and strengthen gun control irrespective of any wave - it falls into his general narrative of being unpredictable, independent-minded etc. In fact, if a wave did happen it probably would just make him not do anything. Which is of course not to say that it shouldn't happen.


I think the biggest thing that separates this one from previous ones is the reactions from the kids who survived it.

They are going to carry a lot of weight with their peers - and their peers will constitute the next political center of gravity as the boomers fade.


I just feel like that's always been the case. We have a whole generation that has grown up with Bowling for Columbine, and I find it hard to imagine that those who were directly affected by that, and their peers, and the cultural impact that it had, is any less than what we are currently seeing. Add on top of that the fact that Sandy Hook happened as a culmination of all of this, and that there was a Democrat president, I see zero likelihood that this wave will be any different. The US has had all the chances it has needed to change this, and has never taken it. I think the only thing that can succeed is a wild card factor - someone like a Trump who might suddenly change his mind on a whim if he thinks he'll gain any advantage of it. I mean what more could you do to rub something in the faces of Democrats than being the Republican President who enacts the country's strongest gun legislation? And as the most anti-Republican Republican President ever, he is the most likely to do something like that. Obviously the signs are not there at all - his immediate reaction is less than pathetic, as usual - which is also why I'm pessimistic anything will happen, even if it is more likely than any movement having an impact. Trump has been able to tarnish military veterans and their families and pretty much any and every vulnerable group one could care to mention without any issues - I wouldn't put it past him to start denigrating the survivors. "Oh that young girl I saw talking on TV, she was so ugly, saying such ugly things, and at a time of such tragedy, we should never listen to that". In fact - why on earth wouldn't he? And of course - it would work.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Feb 2018, 14:32

Did you ever see speeches on the subject made by teens given national attention before?
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby sneelock » 21 Feb 2018, 16:28

the FOX is on all day here and they are really sharpening the fangs for those kids. I heard an NPR report where they reported where they had spent the night before their recent appearance. I'm genuinely worried that somebody, all hopped up on NRA and FOX bile might try to hurt those kids. I mean, anybody with some idiotic conspiracy about why those kids are doing what they doing OTHER than the reasons they are is welcome on the airwaves. it's pretty disgusting and it's pretty frightening.
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Geezee
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Geezee » 21 Feb 2018, 16:46

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Did you ever see speeches on the subject made by teens given national attention before?


no. but nor do I see it as anything that would sway anyone. having watched the massacre of 6-years-old and not moved an inch - if anything actually just getting even more entrenched - is it really only when a teen speaks that suddenly gunowners or the NRA will realise "oh sht yes we were wrong all along"?

instead it seems far more likely the poor kids will just caught in an ugly spiral of blame and counterblame and status quo will work its horrible magic.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Feb 2018, 17:24

Well there’s certainly evidence that these kids are being targeted. This particularly disgusting attack was “liked” on Twitter by Trump Jr:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.c ... r-11260400

But there is the fact that the aftermath truly isn’t playing out like it always does:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.c ... r-11260400

Geezee - I get that the smart money is always on the status quo...especially where guns are concerned. But I think something happened in the wake of Sandy Hook. I think the issue stopped being an issue on a LOT of hearts and minds, and the years since have all been viewed as time “on the clock.”

What I think we’re seeing now is a coalescing of the idea that there’s been enough time. Just as the #meetoo movement morphed quickly into #timesup - something is happening in our politics. We are now living in a time in which Donald Trump is President, and thus...the status quo is all up in the air.

I wasn’t a Bernie supporter, but I understood then that a generational wave was building. Well...it’s getting bigger and more righteous. It’s not just about free college and progressive economic preferences anymore. These kids are powerful because they are committed, articulate and they know they have real moral authority.

If the right wants to conduct a culture war where these kids are the enemy - they are going to lose that fight.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby northernsky » 21 Feb 2018, 17:25


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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Feb 2018, 17:38

I think the right makes a huge mistake pitting themselves against these teens.

All politics are identity politics. We vote for the candidates we view as aligned with our tribe. The GOP already had a generational problem.
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sneelock
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby sneelock » 21 Feb 2018, 19:17

The GOP has a Lizard Brain problem.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Samoan » 21 Feb 2018, 19:21

Scaramucci certainly has one. He had a mini tantrum just now live on Channel 4 News.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Rayge » 21 Feb 2018, 20:26

Sneelock wrote:The GOP has a Lizard Brain problem.

:lol:
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby sneelock » 21 Feb 2018, 20:56

well, this whole "crisis actor" thing is sure hitting the mainstream all of a sudden.
here's a peek into somebody's head who, when confronted with the blunt falseness of his belief re-confirms his right to his own "opinion"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-do-y ... ke-truther
opinions have changed. If I said it's my opinion that I'm 6 foot three and have swarthy good looks people would ask me what the hell is wrong with me. I think we need to start asking an awful lot of people, as firmly but as diplomatically as possible, what the hell is wrong with them.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 21 Feb 2018, 21:47

That shit will fly with the knuckledraggers. Lord knows we’ve all witnessed how a person who wants to believe propaganda can find ways to do so.

But it’s not going to be widely believed. It is too easy to disprove. There are records showing that the kid went to that school, and it’s pretty hard to imagine all the other teens in the school remaining silent about a guy they don’t know going around speechifying on tv.

It’s beyond scummy that they always pull this one. But we’re way beyond scummy now.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby LeBaron » 21 Feb 2018, 22:09

An estimated 500 kids walked out of school today in Austin.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby PresMuffley » 21 Feb 2018, 22:19

The Great Defector wrote:Now they're thinking of arming the teachers? :(


The clueless one just suggested this on live tv during his so-called listening session with some of Parkland parents & students.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby PresMuffley » 21 Feb 2018, 22:21

Very Stable Baron wrote:An estimated 500 kids walked out of school today in Austin.


I wish kids across the country would stay out of school till they got a reasonable result.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby ORORORO » 21 Feb 2018, 22:25

PresMuffley wrote:
Very Stable Baron wrote:An estimated 500 kids walked out of school today in Austin.


I wish kids across the country would stay out of school till they got a reasonable result.


There are signs that this kind of thing is happening all over the country and it's inspiring. But they need someone to take on their cause, somehow. Someone to lead or to represent.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby PENK » 21 Feb 2018, 22:42

PresMuffley wrote:I wish kids across the country would stay out of school till they got a reasonable result.


Like a C?
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 21 Feb 2018, 23:05

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I think the right makes a huge mistake pitting themselves against these teens.
...The GOP already had a generational problem.


At this point, the GOP is basically looking at short-term goals at the expense of long-term viability. For the individual politicians, that makes sense. Win the next election if you can. If you can't, go into lobbying where you'll make more money.

However, for the GOP as whole, it's not a good tactic. There are few things you can be sure of, and one of them is that old people as a group die before young people do. If you denigrate a younger demographic, you should expect to pay for this for decades. In that sense, it's one of the most dangerous tactics to employ, assuming your goal is being around for the long-term. This doesn't really matter all that much to propagandists who are looking to be on the good side of the GOP, but it should matter more to the GOP than it is.

Florida, by the way, may be much more up for grabs that the GOP would like to admit. It's been on the edge for some time.

Remember that hurricane that hit Puerto Rico? Where are many of those people likely to go since their houses are wiped out? Probably Florida. I wouldn't bet that they would have warm feelings towards FEMA and the Executive Branch.

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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby PresMuffley » 22 Feb 2018, 01:28

PENK wrote:
PresMuffley wrote:I wish kids across the country would stay out of school till they got a reasonable result.


Like a C?


I prefer 'narrative evaluations'.

Earlier I watched this piece on the Dunblane massacre:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/scottish-town-devastated-by-gun-violence-has-advice-for-america-say-no-more

Hopefully one day we can be this reasonable here.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Dr Markus » 22 Feb 2018, 12:25

My thing with the teachers is, after they go through the mental health check up, and if it's found they shouldn't have a gun. Will that make people think they shouldn't be a teacher?
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