Scientists

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Scientists

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 31 Dec 2017, 11:29

Thanks for the more recent and excellent longreads. I'll get to them later in the day.
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Re: Scientists

Postby gash on ignore » 23 Apr 2018, 13:45

The Seven Types of Atheist

We spoke to philosopher John Gray about the many different forms of atheist that exist today, and why the majority of them suck.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/ywxj ... of-atheist
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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 23 Apr 2018, 14:24

nev gash wrote:The Seven Types of Atheist

We spoke to philosopher John Gray about the many different forms of atheist that exist today, and why the majority of them suck.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/ywxj ... of-atheist


Anything that starts off by claiming that someone like Richard Dawkins has "fanatical acolytes" is going to be a pile of horse shit.

I'm surprised you liked it enough to share it.

Grey is just another guy shilling for a dollar; he has found a profitable niche as the atheist who tells the religious it is Ok to believe in fairies and that Richard Dawkins is a nasty man who isn't as clever as he thinks he is.
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Re: Scientists

Postby echolalia » 24 Apr 2018, 00:00

Copehead wrote:Anything that starts off by claiming that someone like Richard Dawkins has "fanatical acolytes"

He does, though.

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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 00:41

echolalia wrote:
Copehead wrote:Anything that starts off by claiming that someone like Richard Dawkins has "fanatical acolytes"

He does, though.


No he doesn't

Jesus Christ, Jehova and Muhammad have fanatical acolytes who kill people in the name of their faith.

Richard Dawkins has twitter followers who can get a bit cross or sarcastic on the internet.

Until the first follower of Richard Dawkins kills in his name I think we can maintain he doesn't have fanatical acolytes.

Let's save those sorts of labels for people who deserve them
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Re: Scientists

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Apr 2018, 01:01

Thought this might help:

fa·nat·i·cal
fəˈnadək(ə)l/Submit
adjective
filled with excessive and single-minded zeal.
"fanatical revolutionaries"
synonyms: zealous, extremist, extreme, militant, dogmatic, radical, diehard; More
obsessively concerned with something.
"he was fanatical about security at night"
synonyms: enthusiastic, eager, keen, overkeen, fervent, ardent, passionate; More


ac·o·lyte
ˈakəˌlīt/Submit
noun
a person assisting the celebrant in a religious service or procession.
an assistant or follower.
synonyms: assistant, helper, attendant, aide, minion, underling, lackey, henchman; More


So, nothing in there about killing or violence being a necessary component to earn the definition.

If you want to make a case of degree, go ahead - although I'm not interested in flogging that particular dead horse anymore - but the definitions are pretty clear.
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Re: Scientists

Postby fange » 24 Apr 2018, 01:15



Good lord - no wonder G hates them!
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Re: Scientists

Postby fange » 24 Apr 2018, 01:21

Copehead wrote:
echolalia wrote:
Copehead wrote:Anything that starts off by claiming that someone like Richard Dawkins has "fanatical acolytes"

He does, though.


No he doesn't

Jesus Christ, Jehova and Muhammad have fanatical acolytes who kill people in the name of their faith.

Richard Dawkins has twitter followers who can get a bit cross or sarcastic on the internet.

Until the first follower of Richard Dawkins kills in his name I think we can maintain he doesn't have fanatical acolytes.

Let's save those sorts of labels for people who deserve them

Oh shut up, Copey. I don't care about any of the people being mentioned or their views actually, but don't start twisting the English language to what YOU think words HAVE to mean. hatzy's definitions above clearly show that, so pull your head in.
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Re: Scientists

Postby Pansy Puff » 24 Apr 2018, 06:21

I love the dictionary definition game.

I have some sympathy with Copehead here. My dictionary...

fanat'ical adjective

Extravagantly or unreasonably zealous, orig in religious matters
Excessively enthusiastic

ORIGIN: L fānāticus belonging to a temple inspired by a god, from fānum a temple
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Re: Scientists

Postby fange » 24 Apr 2018, 06:43

But my point is that a word like fanatical doesn't have to have just one meaning or implication, no matter what its original, or one or two of the contexts it might be used in today. Not being able to use the word fanatical without implying violent tendendencies - as Copey seems to be saying - is just not right.
Last edited by fange on 24 Apr 2018, 06:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scientists

Postby fange » 24 Apr 2018, 06:47

.
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Re: Scientists

Postby Pansy Puff » 24 Apr 2018, 07:27

fange wrote:But my point is that a word like fanatical doesn't have to have just one meaning or implication, no matter what its original, or one or two of the contexts it might be used in today. Not being able to use the word fanatical without implying violent tendendencies - as Copey seems to be saying - is just not right.

I agree, actually, although linking it with "acolytes" does create a character I don't see in supporters of Dawkins. Maybe I don't go to the right websites.

I do think that fanatical means going to an obsessive level in one's "worship" of a particular person or idea.
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Re: Scientists

Postby Darkness_Fish » 24 Apr 2018, 09:57

Even though I largely agree with Dawkins, I find it hard to believe he has fanatical followers. I mean, he does come across as a bit of a cock. Makes you wonder if Jesus or Mohammed were around today, would they blindly retweet praise for The Bible and The Koran? "Lol, loved that bit about considering lillies, Cheers Jeez", "Mo, yer bob on about walking with humility and sedateness, you fucking rock".
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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 11:00

toomanyhatz wrote:Thought this might help:

fa·nat·i·cal
fəˈnadək(ə)l/Submit
adjective
filled with excessive and single-minded zeal.
"fanatical revolutionaries"
synonyms: zealous, extremist, extreme, militant, dogmatic, radical, diehard; More
obsessively concerned with something.
"he was fanatical about security at night"
synonyms: enthusiastic, eager, keen, overkeen, fervent, ardent, passionate; More


ac·o·lyte
ˈakəˌlīt/Submit
noun
a person assisting the celebrant in a religious service or procession.
an assistant or follower.
synonyms: assistant, helper, attendant, aide, minion, underling, lackey, henchman; More


So, nothing in there about killing or violence being a necessary component to earn the definition.

If you want to make a case of degree, go ahead - although I'm not interested in flogging that particular dead horse anymore - but the definitions are pretty clear.



It is part of a long history of religious apologists trying to smear the non-religious with their own failures and it is bollocks.

The use of the religious term - acolyte - should make that pretty plain to anyone, its pairing with the word fanatical should make it crystal clear.

Any article which uses such terms has such an obvious bias that it really doesn't make it worth reading, you know what it is going to boil down to - atheists don't understand Theology - as if Theology reveals some kind of truth.

"Oh they are all extremists and zealots and all as bad as each other"

Well actually no they are not.

You're lot murder atheists, Doctors, homosexuals, single women, and on and on and on.

So it is little surprise that you wish to tar us with the same brush
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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 11:02

fange wrote:
Copehead wrote:
echolalia wrote:He does, though.


No he doesn't

Jesus Christ, Jehova and Muhammad have fanatical acolytes who kill people in the name of their faith.

Richard Dawkins has twitter followers who can get a bit cross or sarcastic on the internet.

Until the first follower of Richard Dawkins kills in his name I think we can maintain he doesn't have fanatical acolytes.

Let's save those sorts of labels for people who deserve them

Oh shut up, Copey. I don't care about any of the people being mentioned or their views actually, but don't start twisting the English language to what YOU think words HAVE to mean. hatzy's definitions above clearly show that, so pull your head in.


Anyone who thinks that pairing the word acolyte with fanatical in this article is making a cogent point about atheists is a moron, and I hope that doesn't include you fange.
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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 11:05

fange wrote:But my point is that a word like fanatical doesn't have to have just one meaning or implication, no matter what its original, or one or two of the contexts it might be used in today. Not being able to use the word fanatical without implying violent tendendencies - as Copey seems to be saying - is just not right.


Context is everything

You seem to be wilfully ignoring how and where the phrase was used.

Picking out of the dictionary synonyms that down play it and redefine it in ways there were obviously not intended in the article.

The article used it deliberately to paint a picture of atheists having the same fanaticism and devotion to people like Richard Dawkins as the religious have to their gods and prophets.

If you can't see that I don't know what to say to you really, if you think that that is true .................. :shock: :?
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Re: Scientists

Postby fange » 24 Apr 2018, 11:06

Yeah yeah, ok. :roll:
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Re: Scientists

Postby ORORORO » 24 Apr 2018, 11:07

Copehead's too dim to realise that the meaning of words can change depending on how they're used.

He's too simple to grasp the idea of 'multiple meanings', and probably thinks 'semantics' is a game played by Tories.

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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 11:16

Darkness_Fish wrote:Even though I largely agree with Dawkins, I find it hard to believe he has fanatical followers. I mean, he does come across as a bit of a cock. Makes you wonder if Jesus or Mohammed were around today, would they blindly retweet praise for The Bible and The Koran? "Lol, loved that bit about considering lillies, Cheers Jeez", "Mo, yer bob on about walking with humility and sedateness, you fucking rock".


Dawkins is a pretty important evolutionary scientist and a good scientific communicator but he can be a bit smug and superior when he moves into the political arena.

reminds me of someone............. :?

But the idea that he has fanatical acolytes is risible; I would go as far as irascible keyboard warriors and no further.

The article posted was garbage with two agendas - to link atheists with religious fanatics in a " aren't they all terrible " way and to sell a few books.

I always get the feeling that commentators from the Arts who are atheists find more in common with religious Theologians than with fellow atheists who are from the sciences. There is an awful lot of snobbery in his thoughts about Dawkins - what can this scientific oik have to say which is of any use on such rarified matters - is the feeling I get. and of course the high brow religious lap it up.

Meanwhile - BOOM!
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Re: Scientists

Postby Copehead » 24 Apr 2018, 11:18

Bumblecorn Cats Nightmare wrote:Copehead's too dim to realise that the meaning of words can change depending on how they're used.



I think that was actually my point.

Perhaps you should go back and read my posts again.

You may move your lips while doing so if it helps.

Start here:

Context is everything

You seem to be wilfully ignoring how and where the phrase was used.
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