'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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echolalia
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby echolalia » 30 Nov 2017, 01:00

take5_d_shorterer wrote:French Gothic.

You may like it or not. That's not my concern. My point is that it dominates the field of religious (and also collegiate) architecture 800-900 years after it was first invented.

No it doesn’t. They may still be building “Gothic” churches somewhere but that hardly means it’s the dominant style. No one can build Gothic anymore because no one thinks Gothic anymore – Otto von Simson’s The Gothic Cathedral is a key text here.

take5_d_shorterer wrote:We've have bad imitations of it for decades, but they still are references to the original style, which means that people have been trying to figure out how to respond to this format. No one has come up with anything that obscures its near total monopoly on what we think of as large scale Christian architecture.

But that depends who “we” is. The idea that Gothic is the most Christian style of architecture derives directly from John Ruskin and is restricted to the English-speaking world. Raphael and other renaissance architects described Gothic as “barbarian”. And surely St Peter’s or another 20 non-Gothic Roman churches will spring to mind when a lot of people think of large-scale Christian architecture.

take5_d_shorterer wrote:It also had a massive influence on the development of Western music, but that is another story.

But it sounds interesting too - do tell.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby echolalia » 30 Nov 2017, 01:46

Toby wrote:Image

I doubt whether anyone will call into question the sheer level of skill and vision that Bernini had.

He's fantastic.

Image

Borromini! Bernini’s arch-rival. And a killer, like Caravaggio :-( And as shown on Swiss banknotes. And the best guide to his work is by Anthony Blunt. Basically his genius was that he mixed up the vertical with the horizontal and the curved with the straight. He rode the high wild mercury wave of Baroque architecture and everything that came after, for 200 years, was mere Donovan.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Nov 2017, 05:40

echolalia wrote:
take5_d_shorterer wrote:French Gothic.

You may like it or not. That's not my concern. My point is that it dominates the field of religious (and also collegiate) architecture 800-900 years after it was first invented.

No it doesn’t. They may still be building “Gothic” churches somewhere but that hardly means it’s the dominant style. No one can build Gothic anymore because no one thinks Gothic anymore – Otto von Simson’s The Gothic Cathedral is a key text here.


I going to disagree. If you ask most people what they think of when they think of a large church, they will describe essentially a Gothic cathedral, not something that's Romanesque or in another style. Whether people should or shouldn't think this isn't my point. It's that this is what people reach for when they have a stock image of a church.

There are other things that many other churches borrow from the French Gothic such as the general notion of elevation and light and particular elements such as the spire and stained glass. These are powerful metaphors. I don't think succeeding generations have come up with anything better.


take5_d_shorterer wrote:It also had a massive influence on the development of Western music, but that is another story.

But it sounds interesting too - do tell.


Sure. Gothic cathedrals with their very high ceilings and stone surfaces created a lot of reverb and echo. It shouldn't be surprising that imitative counterpoint and counterpoint in general developed in such a setting.

This formed the basis of all Western classical music from that point onward.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Diamond Dog » 30 Nov 2017, 08:41

Image
In science, the most important criteria for success is not being stunningly full of shit.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Moleskin » 30 Nov 2017, 09:35

Goat Boy wrote:Mona Lisa?


I thought it wasn't enormously famous till quite recently - primarily when it was stolen.

wiki wrote:Today the Mona Lisa is considered the most famous painting in the world, but until the 20th century it was simply one among many highly regarded artworks. Once part of King Francis I of France's collection, the Mona Lisa was among the very first artworks to be exhibited in Louvre, which became a national museum after the French Revolution. From the 19th century Leonardo began to be revered as a genius and the painting's popularity grew from the mid-19th century when French intelligentsia developed a theme that it was somehow mysterious and a representation of the femme fatal. The Baedeker guide in 1878 called it "the most celebrated work of Leonardo in the Louvre", but the painting was known more by the intelligentsia than the general public.

The 1911 theft of the Mona Lisa and its subsequent return, however, was reported worldwide, leading to a massive increase in public recognition of the painting.
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby kewl klive » 30 Nov 2017, 09:52

Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Moleskin » 30 Nov 2017, 10:17

Do the bottoms follow you around the room?
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby kewl klive » 30 Nov 2017, 10:37

There’s a couple of BCB arses that do!
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Rayge » 30 Nov 2017, 11:35

The Unfragrant Ox wrote:Do you have any examples of art - of any kind - that are immune to trends and fluctuations in taste and appetite?

Well the simple answer is no, unless you narrow the parameters to a particular time frame or culture, or consider stuff that has a value beyond its aesthetic ones, such as items made of precious stones and metals.
Mainly, though, I've come on to object to the putting forward of architectural styles such as Classicism and pointed-arch 'Gothic' that, in this country at least, have gone in and out of fashion.
Pointed-arch stuff for example fell completely out of favour in this country during The Enlightenment, when it acquired the reputation of barbarism and the epithet Gothic (as well as the taint of Catholicism), until it was self-consciously reinvented at least in part as a reaction to Classicism, and as part of Romanticism and the high church revivalism of Pugin and others.
And in my boyhood, Georgian town houses, in London at least, were largely slums, loved by no one.
Oh, and Keats's poem is about natural beauty, not art.
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby The Modernist » 30 Nov 2017, 11:41

Moleskin wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Mona Lisa?


I thought it wasn't enormously famous till quite recently - primarily when it was stolen.

wiki wrote:Today the Mona Lisa is considered the most famous painting in the world, but until the 20th century it was simply one among many highly regarded artworks. Once part of King Francis I of France's collection, the Mona Lisa was among the very first artworks to be exhibited in Louvre, which became a national museum after the French Revolution. From the 19th century Leonardo began to be revered as a genius and the painting's popularity grew from the mid-19th century when French intelligentsia developed a theme that it was somehow mysterious and a representation of the femme fatal. The Baedeker guide in 1878 called it "the most celebrated work of Leonardo in the Louvre", but the painting was known more by the intelligentsia than the general public.

The 1911 theft of the Mona Lisa and its subsequent return, however, was reported worldwide, leading to a massive increase in public recognition of the painting.


Let's not forget Duchamp painting the tache on it in 1919. It had to have had a certain iconic status for such an iconoclastic act to work

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Nov 2017, 11:43

My BCB cup lists
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby kewl klive » 30 Nov 2017, 11:48

White men with guitars.
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 30 Nov 2017, 11:52

Rayge wrote:Oh, and Keats's poem is about natural beauty, not art.


yes I KNOW
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby fange » 30 Nov 2017, 11:56

Goat Boy wrote:My BCB cup lists

Yours and mine both, sunshine.

The austerity and slighty unnatural symmetry of a lot of Byzantine art seems to be largely outside most modern people's tastes, but I still find a lot of it very beautiful.

Image
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby kewl klive » 30 Nov 2017, 11:57

L-R flange, skope, G the Mod
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby fange » 30 Nov 2017, 12:30

kewl klive wrote:L-R flange, skope, G the Mod

:D

Tending to our flock, as always.
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Re: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'

Postby Rayge » 30 Nov 2017, 15:23

The Unfragrant Ox wrote:
Rayge wrote:Oh, and Keats's poem is about natural beauty, not art.


yes I KNOW


Well done.
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When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will