Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Keep the monarchy?

Yes - they are personally important to me and must stay.
6
15%
No - they are irrelevant to me and serve no purpose. Give it a year and they won't be missed.
26
65%
Couldn't give a stuff either way.
8
20%
 
Total votes: 40

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Butch Manly
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Butch Manly » 03 Dec 2017, 20:34

:roll:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 03 Dec 2017, 20:43

THEY ARE ANGRY AND THEY WANT ANSWERS

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Dec 2017, 20:53

And you have the audacity to say others are puerile?

Don't you need to post the latest KitKat advert?
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Butch Manly » 03 Dec 2017, 20:56

The Unfragrant Ox wrote:THEY ARE ANGRY AND THEY WANT ANSWERS

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I must say, John, you've really excelled yourself on this thread - you remind me of certain kids I teach.

And then you moan how no-one posts on the board any more. Cunning stuntery of the highest order.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Butch Manly » 03 Dec 2017, 20:59

Diamond Dog wrote:And you have the audacity to say others are puerile?

Don't you need to post the latest KitKat advert?


:lol:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby wannabee enfant terrible » 03 Dec 2017, 20:59

Better get that type of imagination stamped down on then, a fucking Coan army.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 03 Dec 2017, 21:01

:lol:

German Dave wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:And you have the audacity to say others are puerile?

Don't you need to post the latest KitKat advert?


:lol:


:lol:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Copehead » 04 Dec 2017, 10:11

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I would


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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Toby » 04 Dec 2017, 14:25

Diamond Dog wrote: As for the 'political imagination of this country" bit, you'll need to explain exactly what that means and how it's quantified because I've tried and I cannot make a single piece of sense of it.

And I'm looking at the statement and I still have not a single clue what it means. It looks, on reflection, to be high falluting froth with absolutely zero substance behind it. But I'm happy to be corrected.


A political imagination is just that, a political imagination. Just like political "landscape" is a term to determine the current state of politics.

Your political imagination, being a committed socialist, is one where the monarchy, because it is an anachronistic institution, is not part of the future that we should be moving to. Socialists and Communists have very colourful political imaginations because they generally forsee a utopia that can be achieved, if only it wasn't for all the annoying people who don't agree with them.

My political imagination, as a convinced pessimist, is that there are institutions and other forces and the like that often play unseen roles in our political process. Therefore there is a need for dialogue and pragmatism for fear of things that we cannot predict that might happen. You might say that I have no political imagination because I don't believe in utopias.

With regard to the context of the original use, no-one in 1688 would really conceive of a nation without a Monarch, especially when you had the Sun God just over the channel in France and the disaster of Cromwell so fresh in the mind for many (not all I might hasten). By the 19th century, with the establishment of Republics (and then Tyranny) in France and America, the political imagination of the country would have changed, because these were systems and institutions that Britain had been in direct conflict with, and the ideas that come from them would have been in the minds of our politicians.

So therefore the term "political imagination" is used to describe a state of mind where one conceives of political ideas and notions some of which might or might not exist, and that might influence someone.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Dec 2017, 14:29

So it's simply 'the State I desire'.

Right. That's doesn't sound nearly so complex and difficult, does it.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Toby » 04 Dec 2017, 14:39

No, that's your political persuasion.

A political imagination is not necessarily just what you desire - it's awareness of different systems, forces and everything else that makes up the possibilities of politics. In the 19th century not many British politicians would have had the desire to push for a Republic, but they may certainly have been aware of the situation in continental Europe and how different systems were shaping those countries, and certainly I suspect that would have begun to colour their political thought. Thus the rise of the Labour party towards the end of the 19th century.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Dec 2017, 14:48

Well actually that's "Awareness Of Political Climate".
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Toby » 04 Dec 2017, 15:08

You can search for political imagination and you'll find plenty of results. It isn't froth and I'm a little bit insulted by your suggestion that it is.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby The Prof » 04 Dec 2017, 15:33

Diamond Dog wrote:So nearly a week on, as far as I can see, the only viable reason for keeping the Monarchy is because the option may be worse. Nothing else apparently.


Though when it comes to remaining in the EU I assume you'll take that position?

Nearly a week on I've not seen a persuasive argument for 'getting rid' or how a future would look.

General question....
Do you still want a House of Lords? Titles? Honours? A Head of State?
Do you want to evict everyone who lives in a Stately Home?

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Moleskin » 04 Dec 2017, 15:36

Do you still want a House of Lords? No. A proportional, directly elected second chamber please.
Titles? No.
Honours? No.
A Head of State? An elected one.
Do you want to evict everyone who lives in a Stately Home? No. Execution will suffice.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Dec 2017, 15:52

The Prof wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:So nearly a week on, as far as I can see, the only viable reason for keeping the Monarchy is because the option may be worse. Nothing else apparently.


Though when it comes to remaining in the EU I assume you'll take that position?

Nearly a week on I've not seen a persuasive argument for 'getting rid' or how a future would look.

General question....
Do you still want a House of Lords? Titles? Honours? A Head of State?
Do you want to evict everyone who lives in a Stately Home?


Do you want to grow up?

No I do not want a House Of Lords - in many ways, it's even more unsavoury than the Monarchy.
No I don;t want titles - all utter bollocks. Similarly honours.

Yes to a Head Of State - elected.
Evict all in a Stately Home? Do you live in one? If so, yes. If no, grow up.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Dec 2017, 15:55

The Prof wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:So nearly a week on, as far as I can see, the only viable reason for keeping the Monarchy is because the option may be worse. Nothing else apparently.


Though when it comes to remaining in the EU I assume you'll take that position?

Nearly a week on I've not seen a persuasive argument for 'getting rid' or how a future would look.




That's because we aren;t debating the EU.

But, as you're asking - there are many reasons for keeping our place in the EU. Trade deals, migration, workers rights, citizens rights amongst others.

That's four more than any fucker has given for retaining the Monarchy , so stick that up your arse.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Samoan » 04 Dec 2017, 16:08

:o
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Dec 2017, 16:08

:lol:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby The Prof » 04 Dec 2017, 16:11

Calm down!