Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Keep the monarchy?

Yes - they are personally important to me and must stay.
6
15%
No - they are irrelevant to me and serve no purpose. Give it a year and they won't be missed.
26
65%
Couldn't give a stuff either way.
8
20%
 
Total votes: 40

Thang-y

Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Thang-y » 05 Dec 2017, 16:30

Oh and the other day German Dave posted on here chiding someone for taking the piss on this thread and suggesting it not being encouraging to newcomers (or words along those lines). He then deleted it. I said on the sexual assault thread that I'd post this here too: don't stop on my account. There is an ignore function. Besides, over there and on this thread there were valid points coming from it.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby The Prof » 05 Dec 2017, 16:40

Thang-y wrote:
The Prof wrote:There's plenty more stuff to get angry about.


I don't think most republicans are angry at all, despite the privileges of the unelected subject matter,


I wouldn't be to sure about that. I just saw Pete this afternoon.

Image

he's FURIOUS.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Dec 2017, 17:09

:lol:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby wannabee enfant terrible » 05 Dec 2017, 17:57

All bark, no bite. 8-)
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Rayge » 05 Dec 2017, 18:06

Image
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Thang-y » 05 Dec 2017, 18:22

Rayge wrote:Image


Maybe it's just me but the phrase springing to mind with that is

"Get orf moi laaaaaaaand!"

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Wally Bingbang » 05 Dec 2017, 18:31

If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Butch Manly » 05 Dec 2017, 18:44

Thang-y wrote:Oh and the other day German Dave posted on here chiding someone for taking the piss on this thread and suggesting it not being encouraging to newcomers (or words along those lines). He then deleted it.


:? Are you sure about that? This sounds like mistaken identity since I do not recall doing any such thing (either the chiding or the deleting).
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Thang-y » 05 Dec 2017, 18:47

My mistake, it's still there and maybe it wasn't that strong. But I'd call that chiding.

German Dave wrote:
The Unfragrant Ox wrote:THEY ARE ANGRY AND THEY WANT ANSWERS

Image


I must say, John, you've really excelled yourself on this thread - you remind me of certain kids I teach.

And then you moan how no-one posts on the board any more. Cunning stuntery of the highest order.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Copehead » 05 Dec 2017, 19:25

The Modernist wrote:I've come across it in some areas more than others. I remember being very aware of it when I was trying to get "ahead" in publishing in London for example. I became very aware that I just didn't have the right background in terms of university and schooling. I'd approach it very differently now and go more left-field, concentrating on small publishers, but at the time I was just discouraged.
I agree very much with that last paragraph.


I was lucky to be academically drawn to the world of science which is far more meritocratic.

There is no equivalent of getting your nephew Tarquin in to the magazine to write gibberish that the sub-eds can knock into coherence in science, you can either do it or you cant and if you can't you don't have a job.

Perhaps writing isn't the obvious example because to do very well you probably need a genuine talent but the top end of article writing is so small you can fill that pool with fish from the upper echelons of society in the main anyway.

The upper classes have less of a grip over the magisteria of science since universal state education because it has to be be genuinely meritocratic for obvious reasons.

They still seem to do pretty well at sowing up Law but perhaps at the top end it is just a much smaller world than Science like periodical writing.

But generally the upper middle classes excel in areas where clueless chancers with the right tie can get on with a bit of bonhomie and a cut class accent - banking, trading, publishing, politics.

The real upper classes, of course, don't actually need to get jobs at all. Which is the whole point.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Butch Manly » 05 Dec 2017, 19:40

Thang-y wrote:My mistake, it's still there and maybe it wasn't that strong. But I'd call that chiding.


Ah right, fair enough. Completely warranted, of course.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby wannabee enfant terrible » 05 Dec 2017, 22:21

Rayge wrote:Image


Fucking hell, Prince Harry is looking overworked there - get him a throne and a bagful of cash.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby echolalia » 06 Dec 2017, 02:05

The Prof wrote:
echolalia wrote:Portugal (1974)


Interesting.

I hadn't heard of The Carnation Revolution before. The Portuguese Monarchy was overthrown in 1910 leading to a chaotic 16 year Republic followed by a psudo-fasist dictatorship. Overthrown peacefully in 1974.
I'm not sure if there are any lessons for us now but it was an interesting read.
There''s still some kind of unofficial Royal family - is that right?

Well, the man who would be king is still around. He’s a public figure – a minor celebrity. But no one really wants a return to monarchy and his chances of fucking up the country on behalf of his own lineage are very remote.

1974 was a bloodless military coup but things got pretty giddy in the aftermath and for a time it looked as if Portugal would join the Soviet bloc. It was a very anarchic period – I’ve heard lots of stories of mansions overrun by gangs of abandoned, semi-feral children. The democratic left won out.

This song (recorded in Chateau d’Hérouville in 1971) was the sign for the revolution to start – when it played on the radio, the tanks/good times did roll:


Thang-y

Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Thang-y » 06 Dec 2017, 13:08

Thang-y wrote:Politically, I believe they're powerless but I'm about to read the articles you posted. Legally, however, she is sovereign. That may have a bearing on it ... [*edit: yes I think the connection/logic is probably that in the same way you won't get a R. -vs- R. prosecution, a legal step against the crown, similarly they want consent in passing laws affecting the crown*]


Speaking of the power and accountability of the head of state, I see that Trump's lawyer is trying to claim that: "(The) President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under (the Constitution's Article II) and has every right to express his view of any case."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/04/polit ... index.html

Nice try but Trump will remain accountable. He has to. Right?


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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Pansy Puff » 07 Dec 2017, 16:36

The Prince of Wales has admitted he privately lobbied Alex Salmond to promote a charity that wanted to win contracts to train new teachers in Scotland, according to official documents released following a lengthy disclosure battle.

Four months after the Scottish government refused to release the unredacted correspondence to the Guardian, ministers have relented and produced papers detailing how the prince personally lobbied the then first minister in June 2013.

A previously censored letter confirms that the charity Teach First used the meeting between “our patron, HRH the Prince Charles” and Salmond to pressure the then Scottish education secretary, Mike Russell, into meeting its chief executive, Brett Wigdortz.
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Diamond Dog » 28 Dec 2017, 10:09

This is the kind of fawning obsequiousness that makes my stomach churn:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... -game-let/?

So there are 50 Tory MP's who think the most pressing issue they can rally around is launching a new national lottery to fund a Royal yacht?

:roll:
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 28 Dec 2017, 10:30

It's an interesting project though. Something that is almost guaranteed to not raise the necessary funds, and collapse within a year or so. Got to be a good tax dodge in there for some of them, surely?
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Joe Baxter » 10 Jan 2018, 15:39

Toby wrote:This is too binary.

The notion of a Monarch in today's democratic world is absurd. But in countries that have complex histories where the dialogue between institutions plays a tremendously important part in the political process, such as the constitutional monarchy of the UK, the question becomes more complex.

People have tried over the last few hundred years or so to remove their monarchs, but the evidence across the world for a peaceful transition is pretty dismal. It usually ends in catastrophic levels of blood.

Britain offers an example of a monarchy that provides a powerful symbol of living history whilst being politically benign. We had our civil war on this subject nearly 400 years ago and sorted the main issues out. The Monarchy as an institution I suspect will continue to grow smaller and smaller, perhaps even more quickly once the Queen dies.

Provide a solution on how to end the institution of the monarchy and successfully resolve the constitutional and political processes that it would involve for all parties concerned and we can proceed.

Actually "We" didn't have a civil war, England had a civil war.

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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Insouciant Western People » 11 Jan 2018, 13:32

Joe Baxter wrote:Actually "We" didn't have a civil war, England had a civil war.


Actually, "You" were involved heavily in the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, which is perhaps a better phrase to describe the overlapping and interrelated conflicts in the British Isles between 1639 and 1651 than the misleading expression 'English Civil War'.

And you even had your own Scottish Civil War between 1644-45, fought between the Scots Royalists and the Covenanters.

A quick precis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_in_the_Wars_of_the_Three_Kingdoms
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Re: Monarchy the institution. Yes or no?

Postby Goat Boy » 11 Jan 2018, 14:50

He won't like that!
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