The Guardian at its worst

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

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Toby
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Toby » 27 Nov 2017, 20:39

I don't know..in fairness I think the article makes a good point. It will be symbolic in some way. Just as the heir to the throne married a "commoner" - something that probably even in 1990 would have been, if not unthinkable, but probably very unlikely.

The institution of the Monarchy has changed in a lot of way since the Queen came to the throne in 1952. And whether you agree with the institution's relevancy in today's society or not, the simple fact is that a huge number of people in this country do view the Royal Family in a symbolic manner.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Thang-y » 27 Nov 2017, 20:40

I clicked on it. Why-o-why did I do that? I wasn't thinking. (Correction, I clicked on it without reading the link :x :x ) Now I've added my click to the number of people who appear to give a toss.

I'm not reading that - fuck that.


I was hoping there was going to be no mention of it here :x Monarchy is irrelevant

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby The Modernist » 27 Nov 2017, 20:47

Toby wrote:I don't know..in fairness I think the article makes a good point. It will be symbolic in some way. Just as the heir to the throne married a "commoner" - something that probably even in 1990 would have been, if not unthinkable, but probably very unlikely.

The institution of the Monarchy has changed in a lot of way since the Queen came to the throne in 1952. And whether you agree with the institution's relevancy in today's society or not, the simple fact is that a huge number of people in this country do view the Royal Family in a symbolic manner.


I don't think they do, although the ruling class like to think they do, because it underlines the subtext that they must somehow be led by their 'betters'.
I think many are interested in them, but in a fairly superficial "modern celebrity" way, in the same way that they might be interested in what dress Cheryl Cole wears to a premier.

The whole article simplifies British attitudes to race, assuming a kind of simplified, blatant racism which only really occurs with a small minority. And the idea that people with such neanderthal views would be converted by Prince Harry marrying a woman, who doesn't even look mixed race or black, is just risible.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Samoan » 27 Nov 2017, 21:06

I don't pay much attention to Hirsch, her written pieces or appearances on Channel 4 news.
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Goat Boy » 27 Nov 2017, 21:09

They're obsessed by identity politics.

I would say the role of black sportspeople in this country has done more to debunk that bogus notion than this ever will. I don't believe that this is a widely held belief either so the articles main point is largely moot. I think it's patronising.

I really can't be arsed with the Guardian these days. I think it's a rag
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Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby PENK » 27 Nov 2017, 21:17

I read the paper (its app and website anyway) and there are still plenty of good things to be found, but their commitment to remaining free-to-read online means that there are piles and piles of silly clickbait articles knocked off in half an hour to satisfy a headline.

There is a lot of silly handwringing about identity politics and a few too many where-to-find-the-perfect-organic-Yemeni-breakfast-pancakes things but the other main broadsheets also have their fair share of stereotypically posh rubbish (there was a good "Actually Tax Avoidance Is Perfectly OK, It's Just Like Getting a Good Deal on Your School Fees" article doing the rounds the other day) and all three are laughably transparent with much of their news reporting.
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Toby » 27 Nov 2017, 21:18

It still has the appetite for some excellent investigative journalism, but the Opinion section is often hilariously awful.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 27 Nov 2017, 21:19

Little Jim was no-one's fool - he owned the town's only jam butty mine.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Goat Boy » 27 Nov 2017, 21:22

PENK wrote:I read the paper (its app and website anyway) and there are still plenty of good things to be found, but their commitment to remaining free-to-read online means that there are piles and piles of silly clickbait articles knocked off in half an hour to satisfy a headline.

There is a lot of silly handwringing about identity politics and a few too many where-to-find-the-perfect-organic-Yemeni-breakfast-pancakes things but the other main broadsheets also have their fair share of stereotypically posh rubbish (there was a good "Actually Tax Avoidance Is Perfectly OK, It's Just Like Getting a Good Deal on Your School Fees" article doing the rounds the other day) and all three are laughably transparent with much of their news reporting.


https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/24/how-to-eat-beans-on-toast
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Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 27 Nov 2017, 21:33

Goat Boy wrote:
PENK wrote:I read the paper (its app and website anyway) and there are still plenty of good things to be found, but their commitment to remaining free-to-read online means that there are piles and piles of silly clickbait articles knocked off in half an hour to satisfy a headline.

There is a lot of silly handwringing about identity politics and a few too many where-to-find-the-perfect-organic-Yemeni-breakfast-pancakes things but the other main broadsheets also have their fair share of stereotypically posh rubbish (there was a good "Actually Tax Avoidance Is Perfectly OK, It's Just Like Getting a Good Deal on Your School Fees" article doing the rounds the other day) and all three are laughably transparent with much of their news reporting.


https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/24/how-to-eat-beans-on-toast


It's a bit like BCB, then. Some seriously good shit and some frivolous stuff that you can take or leave.

I'm actually rather suspicious of the Grauniad these days but are we seriously suggesting it's worse than the Torygraph or Times?
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby gash on ignore » 27 Nov 2017, 21:37

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Goat Boy » 27 Nov 2017, 21:42

At least BCB doesn't make me want to kick a cat. There is some good stuff on there, as others have pointed out so I don't want to throw the baby out but the opinion pieces are awful and their obsession with identity politics is beyond parody now. I find it very adolescent at times. Their hit rate is pretty low imo

From the bits and pieces I read I think The Times is more mature and sensible plus it does have a better range of opinion pieces from people from left and right. I think it's more balanced overall.

The Telegraph is a rag. There may be good stuff in there but it appears to be all frothing Brexiteers at the moment
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Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


I read the article, which was nonsense.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Toby » 27 Nov 2017, 21:49

The lesson is that there is no truly great newspaper. Most of them have their good points and their bad points, just like they always did.

The Telegraph isn't the paper it used to be, which is a shame. Their issue is their declining readership and a rather mealy-mouthed attempt to get a new one, which is hard work. They have several outstanding columnists like Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, but that's about it. Their actual news reporting is still very strong, but comment and opinion is going downhill.

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 27 Nov 2017, 22:26

Goat Boy wrote:At least BCB doesn't make me want to kick a cat.


Lucky you.


but the opinion pieces are awful


What, universally? Yes, I want to deck Toynbee every now and then but she also makes some good points and Monbiot is a national treasure.


From the bits and pieces I read I think The Times is more mature and sensible plus it does have a better range of opinion pieces from people from left and right. I think it's more balanced overall.


8-) :o :( Okay.........
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Jimbo » 28 Nov 2017, 05:40

PENK wrote: their commitment to remaining free-to-read online.


Not quite.

The Guardian Exposed – Conning Public into Financing “Independent Journalism”


http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/10/09/g ... ournalism/
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Positive Passion » 28 Nov 2017, 06:43

There was a curiously random attack on Taylor Swift in the editorial the other day, to do with her apparently not denouncing Trump (not supporting him, note - just not denouncing him). It struck me that there are an awful lot of far more important people who have not denounced Trump ( the Prime Minister of Britain high on the list).

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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby PENK » 28 Nov 2017, 08:14

Jimbo wrote:
PENK wrote: their commitment to remaining free-to-read online.


Not quite.

The Guardian Exposed – Conning Public into Financing “Independent Journalism”


http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/10/09/g ... ournalism/


Do you have to pay to read The Guardian online? No. It is free to read online. It’s pretty obvious that their money comes from advertising (it does get annoying accidentally clicking on ads halfway down an article...). It’d be nice if they could run exposés on the people providing their revenue, but that is unfortunately not how the world works. Not ideal in the name of investigative journalism, but in the name of survival...
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Geezee » 28 Nov 2017, 09:15

I've given up on expecting quality from the Guardian a long time ago, but it's the only British newspaper I regularly read, although I'm finding myself reading the Financial Times in the absence of any immediate alternative.

Let's set up a proper newspaper guys.
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Re: The Guardian at its worst

Postby Geezee » 28 Nov 2017, 09:16

Positive Passion wrote:There was a curiously random attack on Taylor Swift in the editorial the other day, to do with her apparently not denouncing Trump (not supporting him, note - just not denouncing him). It struck me that there are an awful lot of far more important people who have not denounced Trump ( the Prime Minister of Britain high on the list).


LEAVE TAYLOR SWIFT ALONE
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