Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Samoan » 08 Nov 2017, 10:19

It's always gone on since time immemorial - the whole range of employment, small or multinational and including politics.
But is it so bad in the world of work ?
The person hiring is getting a known entity. Is that not better, safer than employing an unknown - except for their CV, references and interview
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 10:30

I don't think so. Many would argue that it is a natural state of affairs. There are so many variables that can affect the decision to employ someone, which is why the interview process is so ludicrously thorough for any job of any worth nowadays.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Nov 2017, 13:45

Toby wrote:I don't think so. Many would argue that it is a natural state of affairs. There are so many variables that can affect the decision to employ someone, which is why the interview process is so ludicrously thorough for any job of any worth nowadays.


From my point of view (as an interviewing manager in Royal Mail) the process is so drawn out these days because we have to meet stringent criteria regarding diversity.

Which has to be a good thing.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby K » 08 Nov 2017, 13:49

Toby wrote:I don't think so. Many would argue that it is a natural state of affairs. There are so many variables that can affect the decision to employ someone, which is why the interview process is so ludicrously thorough for any job of any worth nowadays.

Ha. I'm surprised Toby is happy with a natural state of affairs.
Just to clarify, we're happy with someone getting a job because of family connections and possibly displacing someone eminently more qualified and capable?

It's just schools that need to impact on social mobility, isn't it.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 13:59

Darryl Strawberry wrote:Ha. I'm surprised Toby is happy with a natural state of affairs.
Just to clarify, we're happy with someone getting a job because of family connections and possibly displacing someone eminently more qualified and capable?

It's just schools that need to impact on social mobility, isn't it.


No, I don't think you quite get what I mean. I think it is natural for people to be drawn to others if, for example, they feel that the person they want to employ can do the right job. If you know someone well, for instance if you watched that person grow up and knew the family well, then they will display characteristics that might not be available when interviewing someone, even if they have better qualifications and the like.

Imagine if a new person joined BCB and suddenly wanted to be "top dog" in terms of posting stuff, organising Jollies and the like. Even if their references were impeccable, I suspect that most of us would be a bit hesitant to fall into line with them, preferring what we know purely because existing members identify and respect the culture that comes with this board.

I think some of the culture of the "old boy network" in Britain for example has disappeared. My father-in-law got a job in the City purely on familial connections and I just don't think that would happen so easily nowadays. There is a corporate feel to employment that in most respects is probably a good thing, but social capital will always be around and that's why Nepotism shouldn't be dismissed so readily either. It is obviously frustrating if you're an outsider and want a position, but I think in a lot of jobs, particularly in places like the media, it happens for a reason.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Nov 2017, 14:09

Died-in-the-wool Tory supports Old Boys Network.

*Drops venison canape & spills Bollinger breakfast*
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 14:15

Toby wrote: It is obviously frustrating if you're an outsider and want a position, but I think in a lot of jobs, particularly in places like the media, it happens for a reason.


I'm not sure why the media is so rife with nepotism, but it is, to the point where the people who got in through no prior connection are a minority from what I can see. It obviously prevents real diversity and I can't see that it is in any way a good thing.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Goat Boy » 08 Nov 2017, 14:17

In the media it appears to have created some kind of middle class clique
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Dr Markus » 08 Nov 2017, 14:32

Would anyone here refuse a job if they thought it was due to Nepotism? Be honest.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby LeBaron » 08 Nov 2017, 15:02

The Great Defector wrote:Would anyone here refuse a job if they thought it was due to Nepotism? Be honest.


Depends.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby LeBaron » 08 Nov 2017, 15:03

Anyway, I would ask whether it’s such a good thing. It seems to me that it just results in someone getting a position based solely on a family connection which has nothing to do with the merits of the candidate.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 15:20

I think objectively it's a bad thing, but it happens so there must be a reason why it goes on.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 15:30

Toby wrote:I think objectively it's a bad thing, but it happens (a lot) so there must be a reason why it goes on.


Well it goes on because people will always want to benefit their own family and friends, over a total stranger. I think we all understand that. The problem is when it becomes endemic and institutionalised as it has become in the media I think.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 15:33

It's probably significant that the recruitment process (just as firing is as well) can be hugely expensive for both the public and private sector. Given that many media institutions walk a fine line in terms of financial safety, I'm not surprised that it goes on there.
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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 15:33

The Great Defector wrote:Would anyone here refuse a job if they thought it was due to Nepotism? Be honest.


Probably not; in the same way that, given the choice, most of us would opt to be born into a wealthy family rather than one in total poverty. But that's irrelevant to whether it's a good thing or not.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 15:34

But then you are utterly undermining your own principles.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 15:40

Goat Boy wrote:In the media it appears to have created some kind of middle class clique


Oh definitely. But a privileged middle class clique, it's not enough to have obtained a good degree from university, it has to be the right university.
Nepotism wouldn't be such a bad thing if it was practiced by people from a varied background, but it's not so it perpetuates barriers of class and race.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 15:42

Toby wrote:But then you are utterly undermining your own principles.



I think in life Toby, you have to take the opportunities you get given, so I don't blame a 20 year old taking up their uncle's offer of an internship or whatever. I disagree with it being offered in the first place.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby Toby » 08 Nov 2017, 15:43

The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:In the media it appears to have created some kind of middle class clique


Oh definitely. But a privileged middle class clique, it's not enough to have obtained a good degree from university, it has to be the right university.
Nepotism wouldn't be such a bad thing if it was practiced by people from a varied background, but it's not so it perpetuates barriers of class and race.


Well, I think that it probably does. The notion that it is white people alone who would practice nepotism is silly. Sure, in Britain, it is white people in the main because they hold key positions in virtually all major institutions. But to suggest this doesn't happen elsewhere in other countries, where say, Asian people are in power for example is highly unlikely.

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Re: Nepotism - Is it such a bad thing ?

Postby The Modernist » 08 Nov 2017, 15:46

I don't think anyone made that suggestion did they? Disparities in wealth and power are even greater in developing countries for sure. But again, not a good thing and I don't regard it as the 'natural' order of things either.