Louis CK, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey...

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Rayge » 30 Oct 2017, 20:52

A comedian called Samantha bee wrote:Pedophilia is a primary attraction to pre-pubescent children. That's not the case here.


Thank you for pointing that out.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby The Red Heifer » 30 Oct 2017, 20:54

Nothin like discussing the semantics of what Kevin Spacey having a crack at a child is actually called.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby sloopjohnc » 30 Oct 2017, 20:54

The Modernist wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
The Modernist wrote:What could he have said that would have made people feel better about him or his actions?


He could've said he didn't remember and left being gay out of the statement.


So it would have been a better statement if he'd lied..? :?


Just not combined them. Most people already knew or thought they knew. I think that's what Eichner was getting at. He singlehandedly set back Gay rights. Or could potentially.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Minnie the Minx » 30 Oct 2017, 20:54

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
A comedian called Samantha bee wrote:Pedophilia is a primary attraction to pre-pubescent children. That's not the case here.

I'm not so sure, Anna. It's sexual attraction to children - I would class a 14 year old as a child.


You can think what you like about the definition of the word and whether you like it or not, but it doesn't alter the recognised definition.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby sloopjohnc » 30 Oct 2017, 20:55

Diamond Dog wrote:The more I read it the more I think it's not nearly as genuine as it first appears.

Despite the 'confessional' side of it that people are seeing, it's simply not that. "But if I did behave...." is not saying he did. It's very much a subtle play on words. He then immediately 'justifies' this 'alleged' action, by blaming it on alcohol. So he's putting his defence out there - maybe it happened, I don;t know, but - even if it did- it was because i was drunk. Note also the complete non mention of the guys age. In my view it's a very calculated statement and, contrary to others on here, I believe very much made with a legal defence perspective.

As for the second 'coming out' paragraph - that is pure deflection. It is completely unattached to the first paragraph. And it cheapens any merit that paragraph has because it's clearly a deflection.

Sorry but it's a cold, calculating statement by a guy who is doing his utmost to get his defence public, and to hell with the other guys feelings.


I read that his dumb publicist told him to put it out on Sunday evening.

When everyone and his brother is on Twitter.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby The Modernist » 30 Oct 2017, 20:56

sloopjohnc wrote:
Just not combined them. Most people already knew or thought they knew. I think that's what Eichner was getting at. He singlehandedly set back Gay rights. Or could potentially.


That's fair enough. It was more the first part of your post I was querying.

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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby The Red Heifer » 30 Oct 2017, 20:59

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Red Heifer wrote:Nothing like discussing the semantics of what Kevin Spacey having a crack at a child is actually called.
Are you suggesting we're condoning his actions?


I'm suggesting it's probably not the most important part of the discussion is all, correctly defining it changes shit.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Minnie the Minx » 30 Oct 2017, 21:05

The Red Heifer wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
The Red Heifer wrote:Nothing like discussing the semantics of what Kevin Spacey having a crack at a child is actually called.
Are you suggesting we're condoning his actions?


I'm suggesting it's probably not the most important part of the discussion is all, correctly defining it changes shit.


But using the inaccurate term pedophile here adds nothing to an already foul situation. It means something quite different. Why use the completely inaccurate term if it isn't right?
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby zoomboogity » 30 Oct 2017, 21:09

Image

"Quite."

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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Oct 2017, 21:13

Diamond Dog wrote:The more I read it the more I think it's not nearly as genuine as it first appears.

Despite the 'confessional' side of it that people are seeing, it's simply not that. "But if I did behave...." is not saying he did. It's very much a subtle play on words. He then immediately 'justifies' this 'alleged' action, by blaming it on alcohol. So he's putting his defence out there - maybe it happened, I don;t know, but - even if it did- it was because i was drunk. Note also the complete non mention of the guys age. In my view it's a very calculated statement and, contrary to others on here, I believe very much made with a legal defence perspective.

As for the second 'coming out' paragraph - that is pure deflection. It is completely unattached to the first paragraph. And it cheapens any merit that paragraph has because it's clearly a deflection.

Sorry but it's a cold, calculating statement by a guy who is doing his utmost to get his defence public, and to hell with the other guys feelings.


Ahhh drunken behaviour...

I guess we all draw our own lines in relation to when drunken behaviour becomes unacceptable but still forgiveable. Transgressions that we can overlook, rationalise because we are humans and we do these things from time to time and, hopefully examine our behaviour in the cold light of day etc

The thing is, Spacey claims he can't remember but he doesn't deny it. I don't know about you but I've done things whilst drunk that I am not proud of and I'm sure we all have. If you were to tell me after the event that I got into a fight with somebody in the street but I couldn't remember it I would go, "hmmmm, possible". I said some stupid ass shit to a stranger? "Yep, I can see that". I got my dick out and pretended I was that guy from Silence of The Lambs? "Shit yeah, that's definitely possible". I picked up a 14 year old girl, put her on the bed and climbed on top of her because I obviously wanted to fuck her? Er, No.

And you invited this boy to the party beforehand? Hmmmmm....

Do you think that's an aberation? A one off event? Or something symptomatic of something even more troubling? I'm edging towards the latter.

The rest of the statement, the shift away from the victim towards Spacey himself is problematic too. To me it's reframing his statement to somehow make him the victim too. A victim of being part of a marginalised group, a victim of having to hide his sexuality for all these years.

The whole thing doesn't sit well with me at all.

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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby The Red Heifer » 30 Oct 2017, 21:15

A comedian called Samantha bee wrote:
The Red Heifer wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Are you suggesting we're condoning his actions?


I'm suggesting it's probably not the most important part of the discussion is all, correctly defining it changes shit.


But using the inaccurate term pedophile here adds nothing to an already foul situation. It means something quite different. Why use the completely inaccurate term if it isn't right?


I suppose so, but you also don't want the other thing that seems to be happening, where people don't want harsh labels applied to him because he only tried to fuck a child the once.

One of my old p*ker buddies got busted grooming 14 year old girls online. A few of the people we played with were trying to minimalise it because of their age, I wasn't having none of that. You try to fuck a child, you've put the labels on yourself I say.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Diamond Dog » 30 Oct 2017, 21:18

To be honest, this isn't about me or you or our definition of acceptable drunken behaviour. I think we both agree trying to bed a 14 year old is not acceptable, drunk or not. This is about a statement that we both find 'worrying'. I agree with you entirely - this probably isn't the end of it and it wouldn't surprise me if we get a plethora of allegations re Spacey's potentially predatory behaviour.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Jimbo » 30 Oct 2017, 21:22

How about we move Kevin Spacey to another parish.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby zoomboogity » 30 Oct 2017, 21:26

Someone who would admit to stealing from an old lady's purse is capable of... oh, maybe he was drunk when he did it. After all, he could see the invitation nice and clear, she had the audacity to be old and fall asleep next to him and assume she and her valuables were safe, he'd had a few cocktails in him, he wasn't in his "right" mind... obviously he's the victim here.

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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby never/ever » 30 Oct 2017, 21:35

Goat Boy wrote:
Ahhh drunken behaviour...

I guess we all draw our own lines in relation to when drunken behaviour becomes unacceptable but still forgiveable. Transgressions that we can overlook, rationalise because we are humans and we do these things from time to time and, hopefully examine our behaviour in the cold light of day etc

The thing is, Spacey claims he can't remember but he doesn't deny it. I don't know about you but I've done things whilst drunk that I am not proud of and I'm sure we all have. If you were to tell me after the event that I got into a fight with somebody in the street but I couldn't remember it I would go, "hmmmm, possible". I said some stupid ass shit to a stranger? "Yep, I can see that". I got my dick out and pretended I was that guy from Silence of The Lambs? "Shit yeah, that's definitely possible". I picked up a 14 year old girl, put her on the bed and climbed on top of her because I obviously wanted to fuck her? Er, No.

And you invited this boy to the party beforehand? Hmmmmm....

Do you think that's an aberation? A one off event? Or something symptomatic of something even more troubling? I'm edging towards the latter.

The rest of the statement, the shift away from the victim towards Spacey himself is problematic too. To me it's reframing his statement to somehow make him the victim too. A victim of being part of a marginalised group, a victim of having to hide his sexuality for all these years.

The whole thing doesn't sit well with me at all.

I guess everybody has a Jimbo moment from time to time. Well I'm having one right now. I suspect there's more to come.


This.

I picked up from the story the part of the kid being 14 years and being invited...whether it is pedophilia or not be damned, he tried to get it on with a minor. And the term may not be correct but it is the age that sticks in the mind of the public.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby bobzilla77 » 30 Oct 2017, 21:54

I do see it as self-serving on Spacey's part. "Everyone feel bad for me, I have lived my whole life with this stigma, unable to be honest about who I am, poor me."

He seems to think the scandal is, that he is being outed, not that he tried to get it on with someone underage.

There will inevitably be people saying "it was a different time" and that's true. When you hear Roman Polanski talk about his charges in the early 80s, he does present himself quite convincingly as the victim of a cruel, puritanical society that frowns on his quite reasonable ways. "They ALL want to fuck young girls! Everyone wants to fuck young girls!" That was literally his defense...come on, you know you want it too.

And lots of people bought it. I remember having a conversation with my roomate when it came back into the news, in the early 2000s, and his general impression was that Polanski had a romantic interlude that was forbidden by the uptight society. I told him, I just watched a show that had sections from that girl's deposition and her story is that he drugged her and then fucked her in the ass while she was trying to fight him off.

And when I told him that, he seemed like he didn't believe it. Maybe because it caused cognitive dissonance with the conclusion he'd already reached. Maybe because that is the default reaction to hearing a powerful man has done something to a woman. And when I called him on it he got REALLY defensive, because no one wants to think of himself as someone who would condone rape, even while LITERALLY in the act of doing so.

And I do sometimes ponder, what does that mean? What can it have been like to grow up in a time and place where you have some kind of power and powerful men are given a pass, basically expected to indulge themselves every chance they get? Would any of us have acted the same in the same circumstance? We like to sit in judgment of those people. But we don't really know.

You know, I never got so drunk I tried to have sex with a 14 year old. Then again I never had the power to think I could get away with it.

But it's not that important whether we the public are able to pass judgment on Kevin Spacey totally accurately. What's important is the fact that these stories are coming to light now. This kind of thing has been going on for a long time and this seems like the first time in history that anything is being done to hold these guys to account.

And I do have the sense that - now that society has turned a corner and is not reflexively defending the Cosbys and Weinsteins of the world - that we are going to start hearing a LOT of unpleasant things about public figures that we like. And not all of them are going to be simple to pass judgment on.

I don''t know the right answer to this but it seems like it's got to lead to a better place than the previous "right answer" which was to keep it covered up and protect the powerful man, for life, at all costs.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Robert » 30 Oct 2017, 22:14

Currently in Dutch news: Netflix terminates House of Cards

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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby never/ever » 30 Oct 2017, 22:15

Robert wrote:Currently in Dutch news: Netflix terminates House of Cards


Oh, the irony...
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Oct 2017, 22:23

They didn't fuck about, did they?

I wonder if they know more than we do.
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Re: Kevin Spacey's statement

Postby The Modernist » 30 Oct 2017, 22:33

Goat Boy wrote:They didn't fuck about, did they?

I wonder if they know more than we do.


More that it's an easy visible gesture for them to make I suspect. I doubt they'll be cancelling every film Miramax produced for example.