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Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 08:21
by The Modernist
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 08:54
by Diamond Dog

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 10:32
by Butch Manly
Diamond Dog wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/alyssa-milano-matt-damon-abc-interview_us_5a348697e4b01d429cc8fc19



Good for her.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 12:17
by Earl E. Eel
The Modernist wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.


She's angry. She made a lot of good points but the one thing I disagreed with strongly was her rejection of a scale of sexual assault. I really do think it's important that there's a distinction made between a man touching a woman's arse and rape - they're absolutely not the same thing. Matt Damon said this too, but I guess he didn't make a big enough deal of it for Minnie Driver. She thinks that focussing on that distinction is a side-issue.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 13:19
by The Modernist
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.


She's angry. She made a lot of good points but the one thing I disagreed with strongly was her rejection of a scale of sexual assault. I really do think it's important that there's a distinction made between a man touching a woman's arse and rape - they're absolutely not the same thing. Matt Damon said this too, but I guess he didn't make a big enough deal of it for Minnie Driver. She thinks that focussing on that distinction is a side-issue.


I think her point is that this scale doesn't exist for the victim; that something that, in legal terms, may be regarded as minor can still be very traumatic and threatening for the victim. And it's a fair point.
I am surprised though by the criticism Damon's comments have received. That seems rather undeserved to me. If I was a male Hollywood celebrity ( C'mon it doesn't demand that much leap of imagination! :) ), I think I'd be thinking 'I'm keeping quiet on this one, the atmosphere's too fevered to guarantee a rational hearing', and that would be a shame as dialogue is needed.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 13:20
by Earl E. Eel
Oh, she wants all men to shut the fuck up for a while.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:00
by Diamond Dog
One wonders why?

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:13
by Diamond Dog
Or, maybe, one should.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:58
by Thang-y
Personally, as I've said before, I think that insisting on taking the 'lower end of the scale' stuff (such as the odd bum slap) just as seriously as the rape stuff is doing harm to the highlighting of abuse*. It's a separate arm of unacceptable behaviour. Lumping arse slappers in with rapists doesn't just put arse sappers in with rapists, it puts rapists in with arse slappers - which is actually quite offensive. It cheapens the impact of the call against the extreme abuse and it alienates people who are less likely to recognise the unacceptability of the day-to-day shit women deal with.

Yes it emanates from the same or similar attitudes to women but there is a huge difference in range of gravity and that should be acknowledged. The cancer metaphor doesn't help.

Highlight and discuss the unacceptability of the lesser stuff (and as unacceptable as I know it is, it really fucking is lesser stuff) and save the outrage and prosecution for the criminals.


*Edit: IF they are taking it just as seriously. They're making the point that it's the same attitude yes. Is it the media/us who are inferring they're taking it as seriously? (Woke up from a nap when I read all this. I'll get back to it.)

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:13
by Earl E. Eel
Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:16
by Thang-y
2 minute point from Radio 4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r7qqv

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:20
by Thang-y
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 16:55
by Jeemo
Thang-y wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.


get the fuck over it. really.

you're assuming that the "one arse pat" is the only event thats happened to the person that is traumatised. it could trigger reminders of previous abusive patternsr.

rule 1 as a carer. dont assume that you know everything about anyone in your care.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 17:03
by Lord Rother
Jeemo wrote:
Thang-y wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.


get the fuck over it. really.

you're assuming that the "one arse pat" is the only event thats happened to the person that is traumatised. it could trigger reminders of previous abusive patternsr.

rule 1 as a carer. dont assume that you know everything about anyone in your care.



That’s exactly why Thangy said “one arse pat”.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 17:04
by Thang-y
Jeemo wrote:
Thang-y wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.


get the fuck over it. really.

you're assuming that the "one arse pat" is the only event thats happened to the person that is traumatised. it could trigger reminders of previous abusive patternsr.

rule 1 as a carer. dont assume that you know everything about anyone in your care.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 17:05
by Thang-y
Just quoting this. I'm not really awake enough to respond to this but I do want to quote it.

Edit: I'll take my own medicine by 'getting over it' but that was an arsehole response .. he's not the only arsehole on here either but the other male one is obvious and I have the arseholes on ignore. I could point out their errors but arseholes aren't interested in it, they're too busy being assertively righteous so aren't worth bothering, not in this thread not elsewhere. (No I'm not talking about Coan). Seriously, the anger of some of the massive hypocrites in this place staggers me.

I'm posting when I'm sleepy which isn't a good idea. I expect crap from some quarters (which I have on ignore as it's about them not me and I don't read it), it surprises me when I get it from others who I didn't expect to misread my points, wilfully or not. Whatever.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 18:08
by Dr Markus
You new? ;)

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 18:14
by Velvis
25 years ago I was in a play with a guy who was a heavy drinker. A couple of the people in the show were. Being recently divorced from my first wife, I would go hit the bars with them after rehearsals. One night, being too toasted to drive the 45 minutes home, I crashed on the floor of one of the guys. So did the first-mentioned guy.

The first-mentioned guy was horny and kept trying to call phone sex sites as I drifted in and out of sleep. I found this a bit bizarre, but to each his own. Eventually I woke up to a feather-light touch on the outside of my jeans and found myself looking into his eyes, mere inches away. I gently rebuffed his advances--not gay, not experimenting, not interested. He was not insistent, and cut it out immediately.

After that, things were a bit awkward for a while, but he eventually quit drinking and became a substance abuse counselor. We remained friends and I've done many shows with him over the years. I never felt traumatized. It was just a thing that happened. Importantly, unlike Spacey, he didn't have any power or authority over me. And I could have decked him if I was a violent sort of person, with no repercussions.

Anyway, I still think of him as a very decent guy irrespective of that incident.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 18:17
by sloopjohnc
Velvis wrote:25 years ago I was in a play with a guy who was a heavy drinker. A couple of the people in the show were. Being recently divorced from my first wife, I would go hit the bars with them after rehearsals. One night, being too toasted to drive the 45 minutes home, I crashed on the floor of one of the guys. So did the first-mentioned guy.

The first-mentioned guy was horny and kept trying to call phone sex sites as I drifted in and out of sleep. I found this a bit bizarre, but to each his own. Eventually I woke up to a feather-light touch on the outside of my jeans and found myself looking into his eyes, mere inches away. I gently rebuffed his advances--not gay, not experimenting, not interested. He was not insistent, and cut it out immediately.


While you are an attractive man, I have never been that drunk or that horny.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 18:44
by Jeemo
Lord Rother wrote:
Jeemo wrote:
Thang-y wrote:
Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.


get the fuck over it. really.

you're assuming that the "one arse pat" is the only event thats happened to the person that is traumatised. it could trigger reminders of previous abusive patternsr.

rule 1 as a carer. dont assume that you know everything about anyone in your care.



That’s exactly why Thangy said “one arse pat”.


and thats why i exactly said nobody knows if it is " one arse pat"