Page 23 of 28

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 14 Dec 2017, 13:40
by Minnie the Minx
:lol:

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 14 Dec 2017, 17:15
by Sneelock
I think that piece Salma Hayek wrote is very well done.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 16 Dec 2017, 14:06
by Insouciant Western People
Sneelock wrote:I think that piece Salma Hayek wrote is very well done.


I thought so too.

There's a story in The Times today about Dustin Hoffman, and the allegations levelled against him. It makes for very queasy reading.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 16 Dec 2017, 14:18
by Eddie Shah environment
Yeah - it's starting to look like he's finished.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 16 Dec 2017, 14:27
by The Modernist
The accusation to do with the towel isn't very clear to me at all. Did the wife and daughter witness it?

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 00:43
by Eddie Shah environment

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 01:27
by Jimbo

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 08:21
by The Modernist
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 08:54
by Diamond Dog

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 10:32
by Butch Manly
Diamond Dog wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/alyssa-milano-matt-damon-abc-interview_us_5a348697e4b01d429cc8fc19



Good for her.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 12:17
by Eddie Shah environment
The Modernist wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.


She's angry. She made a lot of good points but the one thing I disagreed with strongly was her rejection of a scale of sexual assault. I really do think it's important that there's a distinction made between a man touching a woman's arse and rape - they're absolutely not the same thing. Matt Damon said this too, but I guess he didn't make a big enough deal of it for Minnie Driver. She thinks that focussing on that distinction is a side-issue.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 13:19
by The Modernist
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/16/minnie-driver-matt-damon-men-cannot-understand-abuse?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Seems rather harsh. Men do have to be part of this dialogue.


She's angry. She made a lot of good points but the one thing I disagreed with strongly was her rejection of a scale of sexual assault. I really do think it's important that there's a distinction made between a man touching a woman's arse and rape - they're absolutely not the same thing. Matt Damon said this too, but I guess he didn't make a big enough deal of it for Minnie Driver. She thinks that focussing on that distinction is a side-issue.


I think her point is that this scale doesn't exist for the victim; that something that, in legal terms, may be regarded as minor can still be very traumatic and threatening for the victim. And it's a fair point.
I am surprised though by the criticism Damon's comments have received. That seems rather undeserved to me. If I was a male Hollywood celebrity ( C'mon it doesn't demand that much leap of imagination! :) ), I think I'd be thinking 'I'm keeping quiet on this one, the atmosphere's too fevered to guarantee a rational hearing', and that would be a shame as dialogue is needed.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 13:20
by Eddie Shah environment
Oh, she wants all men to shut the fuck up for a while.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:00
by Diamond Dog
One wonders why?

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:13
by Diamond Dog
Or, maybe, one should.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 14:58
by Thang-y
Personally, as I've said before, I think that insisting on taking the 'lower end of the scale' stuff (such as the odd bum slap) just as seriously as the rape stuff is doing harm to the highlighting of abuse*. It's a separate arm of unacceptable behaviour. Lumping arse slappers in with rapists doesn't just put arse sappers in with rapists, it puts rapists in with arse slappers - which is actually quite offensive. It cheapens the impact of the call against the extreme abuse and it alienates people who are less likely to recognise the unacceptability of the day-to-day shit women deal with.

Yes it emanates from the same or similar attitudes to women but there is a huge difference in range of gravity and that should be acknowledged. The cancer metaphor doesn't help.

Highlight and discuss the unacceptability of the lesser stuff (and as unacceptable as I know it is, it really fucking is lesser stuff) and save the outrage and prosecution for the criminals.


*Edit: IF they are taking it just as seriously. They're making the point that it's the same attitude yes. Is it the media/us who are inferring they're taking it as seriously? (Woke up from a nap when I read all this. I'll get back to it.)

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:13
by Eddie Shah environment
Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:16
by Thang-y
2 minute point from Radio 4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05r7qqv

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 15:20
by Thang-y
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.

Re: sexual assault

Posted: 17 Dec 2017, 16:55
by Jeemo
Thang-y wrote:
!!VAPRANT!! wrote:Yes. Although I do understand the point about the degree of trauma being known/felt only by the victim.


Here's an expansion on it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 15061.html

Personally, I think it's a limited argument. Rape, chronic harrassment etc yes absolutely. Anyone *traumatised* by much lesser stuff like one arse pat or small stuff should get the fuck over it. And I say that as someone who's been upset about smaller stuff. There is a scale of reaction (for each individual).

Over-reaction calls for reaction like calls of 'witch hunt' and lessening the impact of calling out abuse.

She's wrong.


get the fuck over it. really.

you're assuming that the "one arse pat" is the only event thats happened to the person that is traumatised. it could trigger reminders of previous abusive patternsr.

rule 1 as a carer. dont assume that you know everything about anyone in your care.