sexual assault

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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sloopjohnc
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Re: allegations of sexual assault against fellas

Postby sloopjohnc » 21 Nov 2017, 16:56

Snarfyguy wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote: I remember being at a Los Angeles JU and dropped "bee-yawtch." Quaco stopped me and told me he didn't like that word.

Maybe you shouldn't have called him that to his face.


I didn't get any reaction when I called him a powerpopper.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Thang-y » 21 Nov 2017, 17:32

We had this in the UK after Savile. Your turn, the States

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Re: allegations of sexual assault against fellas

Postby Thang-y » 21 Nov 2017, 17:43

sloopjohnc wrote:I remember being at a Los Angeles JU and dropped "bee-yawtch." Quaco stopped me and told me he didn't like that word.

Reminds me of the time Jay-Z said that as a new father to a girl he was going to stop using the word. Don't know if he did or not.
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sloopjohnc wrote:I think we need to look at larger society and the treatment of women with unequal pay for the same work part of the conversation and more women in corporate leadership roles. I think pay inequity plays a big part in how society values people in a capitalist society.

Equal pay, eh?

sloopjohnc wrote:My ex is in executive management at a non-profit, run by a woman, yet she has told me time and time again how male management can make the same recommendations as she did and be congratulated for them while my ex was blown off. Knowing my ex, I don't think this is just her perception vs. reality. In a way there's some sorta unconscious complicity involved.

Yeah, there was a recurring character in the 1990s comedy series, The Fast Show - Invisible Woman


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The Great Defector
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Re: sexual assault

Postby The Great Defector » 21 Nov 2017, 17:45

Maybe her boss thinks that your ex doesn't need her ego massaged, while the men on the other hand.......
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Re: sexual assault

Postby bobzilla77 » 21 Nov 2017, 17:48

For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.


I was watching the movie The Punk Singer with my wife, and there's a bit where Kathleen Hanna is talking about her idea to start a band as springing from writing about all this trauma she had been through as a kid. She said something to the effect of, "What good would it even do to tell people? No one would ever believe me. And then I realized... OTHER GIRLS will believe me."

My wife started crying when she heard that.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Minnie the Minx » 21 Nov 2017, 17:53

bobzilla77 wrote:
For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.


I was watching the movie The Punk Singer with my wife, and there's a bit where Kathleen Hanna is talking about her idea to start a band as springing from writing about all this trauma she had been through as a kid. She said something to the effect of, "What good would it even do to tell people? No one would ever believe me. And then I realized... OTHER GIRLS will believe me."

My wife started crying when she heard that.


If it's any consolation, I could cry at the thought of your wife crying.
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Re: allegations of sexual assault against fellas

Postby German Dave » 21 Nov 2017, 18:38

Thang-y wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:I remember being at a Los Angeles JU and dropped "bee-yawtch." Quaco stopped me and told me he didn't like that word.

Reminds me of the time Jay-Z said that as a new father to a girl he was going to stop using the word.


Wow, that was fucking big of him.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Snarfyguy » 21 Nov 2017, 19:10

sloopjohnc wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:CHARLIE FUCKING ROSE

To be honest, this one doesn't surprise me. He always seemed like something of a drunken perv


:lol:

Currently making the rounds:



German Dave wrote:
Thang-y wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:I remember being at a Los Angeles JU and dropped "bee-yawtch." Quaco stopped me and told me he didn't like that word.

Reminds me of the time Jay-Z said that as a new father to a girl he was going to stop using the word.


Wow, that was fucking big of him.

Yeah, what a cunt! :)
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Thang-y » 22 Nov 2017, 08:23

Yeah, turns out he didn't say he'd stop.

Anyway, I've been looking up stuff about Charlie Rose - not a name in the UK - as far as I can find, he's been accused of walking around naked in his dressing room in front of staff, and of saying stuff like "I'd like to see you swimming naked in my pool".

OK that would make me uncomfortable. But you can't compare that to the rapes and other serious allegations about the likes of Weinstein. Apparently he's issued a statement admitting to inappropriate behaviour but thought he was acting in a situation where there were shared feelings. Now 'unwanted hugs' are a thing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42070920

There's a huge somewhat over-reaction going on. Of course they should be criticised but by reacting extremely doesn't it lessen the impact of the outrage due to criminals like Weinstein and Savile? And the reaction is selective.

There's a guy who says you can grab women by the pussy gets voted president.

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Re: sexual assault

Postby Fonz » 22 Nov 2017, 11:23

Thang-y wrote:Yeah, turns out he didn't say he'd stop.

Anyway, I've been looking up stuff about Charlie Rose - not a name in the UK - as far as I can find, he's been accused of walking around naked in his dressing room in front of staff, and of saying stuff like "I'd like to see you swimming naked in my pool".

OK that would make me uncomfortable. But you can't compare that to the rapes and other serious allegations about the likes of Weinstein. Apparently he's issued a statement admitting to inappropriate behaviour but thought he was acting in a situation where there were shared feelings. Now 'unwanted hugs' are a thing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42070920

There's a huge somewhat over-reaction going on. Of course they should be criticised but by reacting extremely doesn't it lessen the impact of the outrage due to criminals like Weinstein and Savile? And the reaction is selective.

There's a guy who says you can grab women by the pussy gets voted president.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... users.html


Yeah, I agree. To compare a simple ‘hug’ with something more unpleasant doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Hugging is one of those potentially awkward social situations where it’s not always clear just how much to hug/hold. There’s plenty of scope for misinterpretation.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby sloopjohnc » 22 Nov 2017, 14:25

And now John Lasseter, head of Pixar, has resigned for inappropriate behavior.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby The Great Defector » 22 Nov 2017, 14:29

sloopjohnc wrote:And now John Lasseter, head of Pixar, has resigned for inappropriate behavior.


He's on leave rather than resign I think.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby The Unfragrant Ox » 22 Nov 2017, 14:53

Fonz wrote:
Thang-y wrote:Yeah, turns out he didn't say he'd stop.

Anyway, I've been looking up stuff about Charlie Rose - not a name in the UK - as far as I can find, he's been accused of walking around naked in his dressing room in front of staff, and of saying stuff like "I'd like to see you swimming naked in my pool".

OK that would make me uncomfortable. But you can't compare that to the rapes and other serious allegations about the likes of Weinstein. Apparently he's issued a statement admitting to inappropriate behaviour but thought he was acting in a situation where there were shared feelings. Now 'unwanted hugs' are a thing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42070920

There's a huge somewhat over-reaction going on. Of course they should be criticised but by reacting extremely doesn't it lessen the impact of the outrage due to criminals like Weinstein and Savile? And the reaction is selective.

There's a guy who says you can grab women by the pussy gets voted president.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... users.html


Yeah, I agree. To compare a simple ‘hug’ with something more unpleasant doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Hugging is one of those potentially awkward social situations where it’s not always clear just how much to hug/hold. There’s plenty of scope for misinterpretation.


Yeah, that's the real problem here, as far as I see it.

There have been overreactions, you see them everywhere on social media. It's bewildering. And even tho' in every case the behaviour of the male has been at least reprehensible, we need to look at every case individually - otherwise an old DJ who grabbed a minor's arse in 1974 is thrown in the can with a serial rapist. That's the danger, anyway - I'm not saying this is necessarily happening.

I expect over time this will correct itself as more and more instances are brought to light. But I find that, right now, any attempt to downplay the seriousness of an assault (and I'm not saying any of them should be dismissed, by the way) results in all kinds of abuse. Reason goes out of the window. Twitter is full of this kind of stuff now. People aren't drawing lines.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby The Great Defector » 22 Nov 2017, 15:32

I've said before, In instances like above with Lasseter you would like to feel that people would tell him, "no offense but you're getting a bit close". Instead of taking it to HR or higher. I know this isn't always possible because you worry for your job, but at least give the person a chance to correct their behavior. If they don't however, yeah, HR or higher.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Minnie the Minx » 22 Nov 2017, 15:42

I think in the case of Charlie Rose certainly, some would have felt particularly irritated that he spent so much time on his shows digging in substantially to the issues that motivated the alleged sexual transgressions of others when they knew something about him most did not.

The fallout and sackings and resignations and cancellations are certainly thought provoking in terms of the thought that 'everything is being chucked in the same soup'. Is it just sexual behaviour that should prompt a network to drop someone? How about tax evasion, being rude to wait staff, being terrible parents, being actively homophobic, hunting animals and taking home trophy heads? All of those things piss someone off, and many of the things that people are being accused of have not broken any laws that I know of.

It's a complex issue that isn't going to become any less so.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby PresMuffley » 23 Nov 2017, 08:56

The allegations against Al Franken have smelled fishy from the start to me considering the source, and how the obviously jokey photo in which he isn't even close to touching Tweeden has been deemed demeaning by so many people strikes me as bizarre. And he also apparently played a little non-consensual grab-ass with some lady at a state fair. Clearly inappropriate if true, but how am I to know what really happened? There's so much disinformation. Anyone see people quoting the supposed photographer of the Tweeden pic as saying it was staged? Yeah, that was BS. No one seems to know who the real photographer is.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Thang-y » 23 Nov 2017, 11:48

Fonz wrote:Yeah, I agree. To compare a simple ‘hug’ with something more unpleasant doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Hugging is one of those potentially awkward social situations where it’s not always clear just how much to hug/hold. There’s plenty of scope for misinterpretation.


Yeah, let's be clear, anyone who's not an intimate saying "I'd like to see you naked" or giving you unwanted hugs is creepyville. And when it's your boss (Charlie Rose or the Pixar guy) or in a work situation that is abuse of the work relationship.


I also think there's a "ooh he did what"? frenzy going on - the media are whipping it up for their own purposes and there's no shortage of us taking it up. Al Franken case in point.

But on the whole if it stops real abuses going on, better out in the open, no?

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Re: sexual assault

Postby PresMuffley » 23 Nov 2017, 12:12

When I posted earlier I didn't know two more women have come forward to accuse Franken of improprieties. Was just looking at Jezebel and many commenters appeared to have had one too many last night. Not that it's typically a bastion of rational discussion.

Anonymous allegations are just that to me. Give me something real and I'll be more than willing to listen, but until that time I will remain extremely skeptical about this.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby Fonz » 23 Nov 2017, 13:15

Thang-y wrote:
Fonz wrote:Yeah, I agree. To compare a simple ‘hug’ with something more unpleasant doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Hugging is one of those potentially awkward social situations where it’s not always clear just how much to hug/hold. There’s plenty of scope for misinterpretation.


Yeah, let's be clear, anyone who's not an intimate saying "I'd like to see you naked" or giving you unwanted hugs is creepyville. And when it's your boss (Charlie Rose or the Pixar guy) or in a work situation that is abuse of the work relationship.


I also think there's a "ooh he did what"? frenzy going on - the media are whipping it up for their own purposes and there's no shortage of us taking it up. Al Franken case in point.

But on the whole if it stops real abuses going on, better out in the open, no?


The thing about 'hugs' is they are hard to avoid if you don't want to appear aloof or antisocial/unfriendly.
I was never a 'hugger' as a young man-my family, although very affectionate and loving with each other, just didn't go around giving vague friends and acquaintances hugs, and so when I left home into the wider world and random friends would just greet you with a big hug and often that mwah mwah air kiss thing, it often made me feel a bit awkward, even if it wasn't always unwelcome. After all, I am a friendly bloke, and I don't want folks thinking I'm a misery.
It's been very rare that a 'hug' has involved a grope from the other person.

If women are having to deal with that sort of thing regularly, well, that's grim, and I've no doubt it happens a lot.
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Re: sexual assault

Postby PresMuffley » 23 Nov 2017, 14:50

I thought it was awesome Seinfeld refused to hug Kesha (which autocorrect just tried to write as Jesus) a little while back. I'm not a fan of people invading my personal space at all. The only female friend I hug is my best friend's wife, but we've known each other since we were 14 or 15.
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