Louis CK, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey...

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Earl E. Eel » 13 Nov 2017, 10:18

Yes

Yes
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Jimbo » 13 Nov 2017, 11:28

Heard a lady talking about how it often happens that a McDonald's manager takes advantage when he has absolute power over a person whose living depends on keeping that minimum wage job.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby The Modernist » 13 Nov 2017, 11:34

It's prevalent in any competitive, male dominated industry as others have said. One of the things unique to Hollywood is that looks and sexual allure are important which probably encourages certain behaviour.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Earl E. Eel » 13 Nov 2017, 11:53

You get that in plumbing too
yomptepi wrote:Who in their right minds would voluntarily go to Wales?

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr Markus » 13 Nov 2017, 12:02

Jimbo wrote:Heard a lady talking about how it often happens that a McDonald's manager takes advantage when he has absolute power over a person whose living depends on keeping that minimum wage job.


There's a film, kinda, about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_(film)

Maybe not.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr Markus » 16 Nov 2017, 13:17

Holy fuck he was busy if these are true.

Kevin Spacey: Old Vic lists 20 staff allegations against him


http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42009596
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby harvey k-tel » 16 Nov 2017, 17:41

Al Franken now. This is amazing.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 17:56

Better add Sen. Al Franken to the list. Lee Ann Tweeden, the woman in the photo, said Franken came on to her and tried kissing her without permission.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Minnie Cheddars » 16 Nov 2017, 18:00

But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.
For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could peuk.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Minnie Cheddars » 16 Nov 2017, 18:00

Nothing personal Harv :)
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 18:26

Minnie the Minx wrote:I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheads are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek.


Since Oedipus, everyone loves a good story of fallen hubris.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 18:30

Minnie the Minx wrote:But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.

For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could puke.


I've been holding off on this, but my daughter was severely sexually assaulted by a co-worker at Buffalo Wild Wings.

She had even told management about the guy before it happened.

She didn't go to HR after or sue because she just wanted to get out of there. It's affected her entire relationship with men in general.

I tear up for her just writing about it. She didn't tell me because she knows I would have killed the guy or beat him senseless and didn't want me to go to jail.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Fireplug » 17 Nov 2017, 13:27

I don't even want to think about how I'd feel in those circumstances, Sloop. Not quite my worst nightmare but it's up there.

I'm one of the kind of people Min's upset with. I have been surprised by how many women have experienced this sort of thing on a regular basis. I've spoken about it with my wife and she's been surprised too. This may be partly circumstantial; she's worked for most of her adult life in the same place, a great environment that attracts overwhelmingly good people. It may be partly cultural -- maybe this sort of behaviour by men is more common in the US, or in the US & UK, than in Spain. It seems unlikely, but worth considering. It may be personal -- she might just be lucky, or it might be because she does tend to project a kind of polite frostiness by default (that's not to shift any blame at all to victims whose friendliness was grossly misinterpreted, just an observation, in the same way that noting that people with a certain kind of confident physical bearing are less likely to be mugged does not excuse mugging). Maybe I'm cloth-eared but I don't remember anyone I know in real life shouting or even hinting at me about being routinely harassed or assaulted. My instinct wouldn't, I hope, have been to dismiss it. I'd have been more likely to overreact than underreact. My awareness of sexual abuse of women has been largely limited to the increased risk of violent sexual assault that they face, and the effects that the fear of it can have on them. A lot of women started doing martial arts and combat sports where I trained because something bad had happened, or they were worried it would. I've changed my own behaviour in light of that knowledge (e.g. crossing the road or taking another route if I find myself walking at night behind a lone woman). But the scope of the day to day sleaziness and non-violent assault? Nope. It's been news to me. I've been very naive.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Nov 2017, 13:32

sloopjohnc wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.

For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could puke.


I've been holding off on this, but my daughter was severely sexually assaulted by a co-worker at Buffalo Wild Wings.

She had even told management about the guy before it happened.

She didn't go to HR after or sue because she just wanted to get out of there. It's affected her entire relationship with men in general.

I tear up for her just writing about it. She didn't tell me because she knows I would have killed the guy or beat him senseless and didn't want me to go to jail.


Fucking hell man.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Nov 2017, 16:05

The only thing that bugs me up about the Al Franken accusation is that the woman accusing him is Republican and conservative and probably voted for a "pussy grabber." How does she reconcile that if that's the case?
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Nov 2017, 19:54

Goat Boy wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.

For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could puke.


I've been holding off on this, but my daughter was severely sexually assaulted by a co-worker at Buffalo Wild Wings.

She had even told management about the guy before it happened.

She didn't go to HR after or sue because she just wanted to get out of there. It's affected her entire relationship with men in general.

I tear up for her just writing about it. She didn't tell me because she knows I would have killed the guy or beat him senseless and didn't want me to go to jail.


Fucking hell man.


Here's the thing, Dougie. The guy didn't even like my daughter and was really mean to her at work. The assault was about power and shaming my daughter, which worked. That's why men do these things - it has nothing to do with sexual attraction.

Normally, my daughter is very strong minded, but something like this can break down people.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby jimboo » 19 Nov 2017, 07:42

Minnie the Minx wrote:But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.
For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could peuk.


Fucking word Min , some of the shit my wife and female friends have had and still get turn my stomach. The naughty stars will stop shining but the everyday Joe will carry on with his behaviour.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Thang-y » 19 Nov 2017, 08:27

I've not read the whole thread, but sorry to hear of your daughter's experience sloop.

I see in today's paper what Meryl Streep has said, and it's quite right: “We come to it disadvantaged through the many millennia preceding our present moment, and because of our vulnerabilities we anticipate danger, we expect it, we’re hyper alert to it, we have the 360 on the whole room ... We have they say measurably more acute hearing, we have better sense of smell, we notice details, what people are wearing, their ticks and peculiarities.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 62361.html

I've been lucky - well it isn't really luck; I think it's down to having older brothers and being used to physically fighting with them - not being intimidated. I have a million examples. Recently, one guy having a go at me in a queue (he didn't realise he was queuing behind someone just standing there) .. he couldn't get me to cower down with words so he thrust his chest towards me in the way people do when they're warning they're about to hit. I did it back to him (public place, he couldn't punch me and get away with it http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 61681.html ). I watched him hoping for an aneurysm but that didn't happen. Oh well. Point is, as an adult, I've been lucky, I wear my radar and situations get avoided or nipped in the bud. But let me tell you, it starts when you're young and unarmoured.

This power balance happens at the language level (check Dale Spender's 'Man Made Language') .. and at the micro level. Eg yesterday, I was in an office writing notes in a booklet and some unknown guy was there and tried to take the pen out of my hand without asking .. I didn't let go of it and he was surprised - I was using it, why should I let him take it? The other day I was walking along the pavement and a guy glared at me .. it turned out he wanted to cross my path in front of me and was just getting me to stop. Actually it didn't, the fucker had to wait until I'd gone. Neither of these things bothered me - why should they, they didn't get their micro way, but I noticed their play and their reaction. Many men (not all - Rayge's a great exception) just assume stuff that most women would never dream of doing. And of course that applies at the macro level.

The thing is, shit happens when we're in a situation where we kind of expect it not to happen and your radar isn't on. Like when you're at work. So when you're locked in and need the job, or you're not listened to like Sloop's daughter, I think that's unforgivable abuse. So when I hear that Kevin Spacey made a pass at someone but was rejected (not talking about blowing unsuspecting sleeping men), or that someone's bottom was pinched, or someone was flashed at, I'm unimpressed but unheated. It's the total abuse of power or situations like the Weinsteins or the fastfood boss any other tosspot bullies that fuck me off.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Minnie Cheddars » 19 Nov 2017, 16:23

Fireplug wrote:
I'm one of the kind of people Min's upset with.


Steve, I hope you don't think that I'm upset with anyone- there are no individuals I am pointing at. If that's the impression you got, then that's my fault for not being clear enough.

It is the situation that makes me frustrated. This - that on the numerous occasions that anything happened to me and my friends, when we told male friends about it (who were all good, decent people) that there was almost always horror mixed with disbelief. On the occasions where the fuckwit would be a local person - taxi driver, shop owner, landlord - invariably those people would never behave the same way in front of any of our male friends. I remember my friend telling her pal that the landlord was sexually harrassing her - and our male friend saying "but he's always been so great with me!"

Also Steve, I can completely believe that your wife has also been surprised at the extent of the allegations. The section of my friends who had the same upbringing, social life as me share my experiences. On Friday I was having dinner with friends, one of whom is ten years older than me, was born in NZ, moved to Austin at 17, then spent 10 years in NY then 20 in London and is now back in Austin. Her entire life has been very different from mine, and though she has experienced some issues of harrassment when I was talking to her her jaw was dropping. This was eye opening for me. "You've never had a landlord ask you for sex?" She thought I was joking. I learnt something, but that is because I have never asked. I assumed all women had had the same experiences as me.

And we hated the police. We would no sooner have gone to them than eaten our own toes. Several violent arrests and personal experiences of police violence (with me, when I was 17) had filled me and all our friends with deep cynicism and had successfully alienated the police force from us entirely.

I remembered something this week, about the diaries I kept from ages 16-22. When I found them again recently I would read out pages to Baron crying with laughter, but one of the very notable things was the amount of times that I wrote that I got into fight with someone who was harrassing me. Dozens and dozens of times. If I detailed all the dates here, they would make for sobering reading. Compared to, for example, how odd it would look if a bloke wrote that he had got beaten up on a weekly basis.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » 19 Nov 2017, 19:07

Yesterday, on the way home from guitar practice I was listening to the New Yorker Radio Hour. They had Rowan Farrow on as well as a couple other folks, including feminist author, Bell Hooks. She was talking how her dad was this macho asshole and because her brother wasn't very masculine, the dad would shame. In fact, she cited John Bradshaw as saying lots of guys have faced shame by family or friends based re: their masculinity.

As lots of women are saying these past few weeks, it's not just on women to make things better, and be the reality check. Us guys have to do it so women don't have to.

I don't know when that will be - "faggot" is still the ultimate insult for my son and his friends. If they're around me I tell them to knock it off so that's one or two hours during the 24 that they might not use it.
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