Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr. E. PLATE » 13 Nov 2017, 09:13

Robert wrote:
Dr. E. PLATE wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
I'm sure they are. Weirdly enough people don't write salacious books or gossip about plumbers or chartered accountants or ambulance drivers.


:?

I get the impression you think it's unfair we're criticising Hollywood for attracting narcissists and feeding their basest instincts.

Very odd.


I think we can rest assured that this whole thing is not restricted to Hollywood or the film industry.


It happens where there are lots of powerful people with lots of money. Where is there a better example of this than Hollywood?
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Robert » 13 Nov 2017, 09:33

Dr. E. PLATE wrote:
Robert wrote:
Dr. E. PLATE wrote:
:?

I get the impression you think it's unfair we're criticising Hollywood for attracting narcissists and feeding their basest instincts.

Very odd.


I think we can rest assured that this whole thing is not restricted to Hollywood or the film industry.


It happens where there are lots of powerful people with lots of money. Where is there a better example of this than Hollywood?


Plenty I think but I am not convinced the money plays a role, it's rather the power to make or break careers.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Goat Boy » 13 Nov 2017, 09:39

Robert wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:The nature of the business lends itself to abusive and exploitative behaviour of course. You can imagine what has happened in the past and what people managed to get away with.



why does the nature of the business lend itself for that?


Well it’s obviously a very hierarchical industry where those at the top – producers, directors, top actors – hold remarkable influence and power. Those at the bottom – aspiring actors etc – are naturally vulnerable and compromised by their desire to make it and not “rock the boat” so inappropriate behaviour is enabled to go uncheck. You’ve also got a conspiracy of silence where this behaviour has become tolerated (the casting couch) and because so many other people are dependent on the success of the big players - or simply fearful of them and worried what they could do to their career, people naturally turn a blind eye to this behaviour.

It's classic institutional behaviour.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr. E. PLATE » 13 Nov 2017, 09:54

Yeah, the casting couch is a long-established and well-known Hollywood recruitment 'system'. You're probably not going to find out how much it helped individual careers for a number of reasons.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby PENK » 13 Nov 2017, 10:00

Dr. E. PLATE wrote:It happens where there are lots of powerful people with lots of money. Where is there a better example of this than Hollywood?


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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Robert » 13 Nov 2017, 10:09

Dr. E. PLATE wrote:Yeah, the casting couch is a long-established and well-known Hollywood recruitment 'system'. You're probably not going to find out how much it helped individual careers for a number of reasons.



True but I would think a substantial amount of those careers were enhanced through consent too, a certain preparedness to do things to climb up. As happens anywhere. In the past weeks I have read numerous stories in the Dutch media #metoo frenzy about the army, police, politics, sports, corporate world etc etc.

I agree with GB that for this to happen, there needs to be a strong sense of hierarchy but unfortunately that is not restricted to Hollywood.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr. E. PLATE » 13 Nov 2017, 10:18

Yes

Yes
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Jimbo » 13 Nov 2017, 11:28

Heard a lady talking about how it often happens that a McDonald's manager takes advantage when he has absolute power over a person whose living depends on keeping that minimum wage job.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby The Modernist » 13 Nov 2017, 11:34

It's prevalent in any competitive, male dominated industry as others have said. One of the things unique to Hollywood is that looks and sexual allure are important which probably encourages certain behaviour.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Dr. E. PLATE » 13 Nov 2017, 11:53

You get that in plumbing too
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby The Great Defector » 13 Nov 2017, 12:02

Jimbo wrote:Heard a lady talking about how it often happens that a McDonald's manager takes advantage when he has absolute power over a person whose living depends on keeping that minimum wage job.


There's a film, kinda, about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_(film)

Maybe not.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby The Great Defector » Yesterday, 13:17

Holy fuck he was busy if these are true.

Kevin Spacey: Old Vic lists 20 staff allegations against him


http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42009596
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Harvey K-Tel » Yesterday, 17:41

Al Franken now. This is amazing.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » Yesterday, 17:56

Better add Sen. Al Franken to the list. Lee Ann Tweeden, the woman in the photo, said Franken came on to her and tried kissing her without permission.

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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Minnie the Minx » Yesterday, 18:00

But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.
For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could peuk.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Minnie the Minx » Yesterday, 18:00

Nothing personal Harv :)
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Darryl Strawberry » Yesterday, 18:07

An episode of Have I Got News for You in which host Jo Brand rebuked an all-male panel for seemingly not taking allegations of sexual harassment seriously was the most complained about programme on the BBC in the past two weeks.

Figures published by the BBC reveal the comedy panel show attracted 234 complaints after being broadcast on 3 November.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » Yesterday, 18:26

Minnie the Minx wrote:I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheads are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek.


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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby sloopjohnc » Yesterday, 18:30

Minnie the Minx wrote:But it's not amazing, really.
Women - as women are usually the people this happens to - have been saying for years and years and years that men - as it usually is men - assault and harass us. In the street, in the bar, in the home, in the shop, in a taxi, on a plane, at a show, in the park, in every situation you can imagine.

For years many women have shrugged and said that that's the way life is. I have told tales of being assaulted by taxi drivers, pub landlords, barmen, house landlords, strangers in the street. I can guarantee you that most of the people I told probably thought I was exaggerating. Who gets targeted on daily life? Women do. It has been our story all our lives. I'm not remotely surprised by any of it.
And incidentally - the vast majority of men that have tried to fuck about with me have not been corporate business heads or fantastic theatre luvvies. They have been joiners, taxi drivers, dealers, your average chaps. I want to keep reminding people that the high flying news articles about successful dickheada are in the news as they are successful and famous. Nobody puts the guy who runs the Spar on the cover of Newsweek. But they are the majority and those people have got away with shit and some of that is because it isn't newsworthy. Day to day common or garden unfamous abuse just rolling on quietly and uninterrupted.
I've shouted and shouted and shouted all my life and now a famous group of people got caught and everyone is WOKE.
I could puke.


I've been holding off on this, but my daughter was severely sexually assaulted by a co-worker at Buffalo Wild Wings.

She had even told management about the guy before it happened.

She didn't go to HR after or sue because she just wanted to get out of there. It's affected her entire relationship with men in general.

I tear up for her just writing about it. She didn't tell me because she knows I would have killed the guy or beat him senseless and didn't want me to go to jail.
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Re: Kevin Spacey/Louis C.K.

Postby Fireplug » Today, 13:27

I don't even want to think about how I'd feel in those circumstances, Sloop. Not quite my worst nightmare but it's up there.

I'm one of the kind of people Min's upset with. I have been surprised by how many women have experienced this sort of thing on a regular basis. I've spoken about it with my wife and she's been surprised too. This may be partly circumstantial; she's worked for most of her adult life in the same place, a great environment that attracts overwhelmingly good people. It may be partly cultural -- maybe this sort of behaviour by men is more common in the US, or in the US & UK, than in Spain. It seems unlikely, but worth considering. It may be personal -- she might just be lucky, or it might be because she does tend to project a kind of polite frostiness by default (that's not to shift any blame at all to victims whose friendliness was grossly misinterpreted, just an observation, in the same way that noting that people with a certain kind of confident physical bearing are less likely to be mugged does not excuse mugging). Maybe I'm cloth-eared but I don't remember anyone I know in real life shouting or even hinting at me about being routinely harassed or assaulted. My instinct wouldn't, I hope, have been to dismiss it. I'd have been more likely to overreact than underreact. My awareness of sexual abuse of women has been largely limited to the increased risk of violent sexual assault that they face, and the effects that the fear of it can have on them. A lot of women started doing martial arts and combat sports where I trained because something bad had happened, or they were worried it would. I've changed my own behaviour in light of that knowledge (e.g. crossing the road or taking another route if I find myself walking at night behind a lone woman). But the scope of the day to day sleaziness and non-violent assault? Nope. It's been news to me. I've been very naive.