Uber loses London licence

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Samoan » 25 Sep 2017, 17:26

Uber is moot as I don't have a smartphone but I never have a problem getting a black cab to go south west of the river if I need one when it is very very late at night for *health and safety*. Carrying cash is a pain although more seem to be equipped with credit/debit card readers.

Alternatively, I go by tube or landline train as far home as possible where there are mini cab offices adjacent to the stations (or even an occasional passing black cab to hail). They're a mixed bag, car quality and quoted price: I get them to drop me off at the stairwell before mine, not in front of my flat, linger and fiddle around with my keys or something until they've clearly driven off and then I scoot in home.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 25 Sep 2017, 17:29

I've used Uber once, I think, on a friend's account, and have no desire to sign myself up for it. I'm happy to support the local cabbies 'cause they get a raw deal to begin with, and had massive protests when Uber showed up and our mayor, who refuses to do anything that might be construed as taking one side over another just let them come in and run rampant without imposing any sort of regulations on them. Uber can fuck off, as far as I'm concerned. And yeah, I mostly walk if I can.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby kewl klive » 25 Sep 2017, 17:33

Or private plane yeah?
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 25 Sep 2017, 17:39

I'm digging a landing ditch in my backyard as we speak.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby kewl klive » 25 Sep 2017, 17:57

As well as typing, you renaissance man!
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Nick » 26 Sep 2017, 10:46

Goat Boy wrote:I'm not aware of Air b n b being at the same cunt level as Uber mind.


I'd not thought anything bad about Air BnB. I've used them a few times to book apartments in various European cities, and haven't had any problems. I hadn't really given the regulation, health & safety etc issues much thought, to be quite honest.

I've used Uber a couple of times, in a pinch. The first time I was in Riyadh a couple of years ago and along with a few colleagues, was trying in vain to find a taxi after a very big conference, when several thousand people spilled out of the venue at 9pm, all looking for a ride back to their hotels. A professor I was with had the Uber app on his phone, and within a minute or two a car was on its way to us. At the time I felt nothing other than very grateful, because I'd worked a 13 hour day and I was knackered.

In the general run of things though, if I need to use a taxi I'll use a normal one, whether in the UK or overseas.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Toby » 26 Sep 2017, 10:53

Hugo Rifkind's article in the Times (behind £ paywall) articulates that this may be the first scrap in the battle between future Tech and Democracy.

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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 26 Sep 2017, 11:08

Minnie the Minx wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Deebank wrote:
They don't do walking in the US do they?

I remember walking to a bar in Florida with a beer-monster work colleague who insisted we find a place to drink after the hotel bar had closed.

This was in Titusville - we were staying in the 'Spaceport Holiday inn' which was just like all the other Holiday Inns but with pictures of astronauts in the rooms.

It being the US there were no pavements (or sidewalks) so we staggered in the scrubby grass alongside the highway trying not to blunder into alligator infested ditches. Every so often pick up trucks and other vehicles seemingly full of pissed up hicks would pass by hooting and hollering at us. "FAGS" they would yell.

The lady who ran the pool hall we eventually found couldn't believe we'd walked. She called a family member who drove a taxi to take us back after a couple of games and a pitcher of beer. Nice lady.


I had a similar thing in Memphis. I need some glasses from Walgreen's , which was about 1km up the road. When I suggested to the lady on the desk that I would walk, as it was a lovely day, she nearly had a Aneurysm. I explained I was British , and we walk everywhere. She insisted she had never heard of such a thing. But as you say, no sidewalks, and it was a bit hairy making my way alongside the three lane highway that passes by Gracelands.


The weather in SF lends itself much better to walking. I've pounded all the pavements there - of which there are many - even in rubber, I didn't get as roasting as I do from opening the front door for four seconds here.

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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby WG Kaspar » 26 Sep 2017, 11:11

The difference is that unlike Uber, Air b'n'b lets the owners set the price of the rent and takes a standard commission of around 11%.
It's a similar business model but I can see how that arrangement means they are getting away with regulations easier and putting the onus on the owners.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby echolalia » 26 Sep 2017, 11:53

yomptepi wrote:I had a similar thing in Memphis. I need some glasses from Walgreen's , which was about 1km up the road. When I suggested to the lady on the desk that I would walk, as it was a lovely day, she nearly had a Aneurysm. I explained I was British , and we walk everywhere. She insisted she had never heard of such a thing. But as you say, no sidewalks, and it was a bit hairy making my way alongside the three lane highway that passes by Gracelands.

Walking in Memphis… someone should write a song about that.

Anyway – if it’s a toss-up between Uber and a normal taxi I’ll choose Uber. The reason for this is that about 50% of Lisbon taxi drivers are nasty fascistoid little fuckers. They’re thick with the police as well – in fact I think many of them are police. It’s a pity for the decent ones, but as a corporation they richly deserve their bad reputation. So when Uber came along a lot of people were delighted. And I’ve noticed that a lot of teenagers, who wouldn’t dream of taking a “normal” taxi, are quite happy to use Uber. There’s a perception that it’s safer.

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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Geezee » 26 Sep 2017, 12:32

WG Kaspar wrote:The difference is that unlike Uber, Air b'n'b lets the owners set the price of the rent and takes a standard commission of around 11%.
It's a similar business model but I can see how that arrangement means they are getting away with regulations easier and putting the onus on the owners.


And they are avoiding all the tax charges associated with a normal hotel, hence destroying the hotel industry. All these tech companies - whether it is Spotify, Amazon, Uber, Google, Facebook, or Airbnb or whatever - are overturning existing business models (watch out for banking, which is the next one in line it seems). If you are engaging with any of these services it seems peculiar to me to have some sort of special vitriol for Uber, as I don't see it as much worse or better than the others I've mentioned - people are getting screwed one way or another, but they were under the old business models as well. But in general I'm surprised at how slow the regulators have adapted to this - as has been widely pointed out, in TFL's own indictment of Uber they are effectively criticising their own shortcomings (particularly on safety/licensing which is ultimately their responsibility).
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Minnie the Minx » 26 Sep 2017, 13:11

Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
I had a similar thing in Memphis. I need some glasses from Walgreen's , which was about 1km up the road. When I suggested to the lady on the desk that I would walk, as it was a lovely day, she nearly had a Aneurysm. I explained I was British , and we walk everywhere. She insisted she had never heard of such a thing. But as you say, no sidewalks, and it was a bit hairy making my way alongside the three lane highway that passes by Gracelands.


The weather in SF lends itself much better to walking. I've pounded all the pavements there - of which there are many - even in rubber, I didn't get as roasting as I do from opening the front door for four seconds here.

Were you wearing rubber?


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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 26 Sep 2017, 13:45

Minnie the Minx wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:
The weather in SF lends itself much better to walking. I've pounded all the pavements there - of which there are many - even in rubber, I didn't get as roasting as I do from opening the front door for four seconds here.

Were you wearing rubber?


Yes.

I bet you can carry that off better than me.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Minnie the Minx » 26 Sep 2017, 13:46

Well, not to be harsh, but I think you are probably right. On the other hand, you can do long division and algebra and I can't, so it's all swings and roundabouts.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Deebank » 26 Sep 2017, 13:57

Can I just state for the record that I was not wearing rubber.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Robert » 26 Sep 2017, 14:25

Geezee wrote:
WG Kaspar wrote:The difference is that unlike Uber, Air b'n'b lets the owners set the price of the rent and takes a standard commission of around 11%.
It's a similar business model but I can see how that arrangement means they are getting away with regulations easier and putting the onus on the owners.


And they are avoiding all the tax charges associated with a normal hotel, hence destroying the hotel industry. All these tech companies - whether it is Spotify, Amazon, Uber, Google, Facebook, or Airbnb or whatever - are overturning existing business models (watch out for banking, which is the next one in line it seems). If you are engaging with any of these services it seems peculiar to me to have some sort of special vitriol for Uber, as I don't see it as much worse or better than the others I've mentioned - people are getting screwed one way or another, but they were under the old business models as well. But in general I'm surprised at how slow the regulators have adapted to this - as has been widely pointed out, in TFL's own indictment of Uber they are effectively criticising their own shortcomings (particularly on safety/licensing which is ultimately their responsibility).


Although there are similarities, there are more differences.

Uber offers practically the same as regular taxi's. They transport you from A to B. They are cheaper because of their business model. The product they sell however is the same.

Air BnB is different. Air BnB is cheaper, in part because of the business model but also, and I believe mostly, because they have stripped the product hotels are offering to the most essential : a decent room. There are apparantly swats of people that don't want to pay for in house restaurants that they won't use, a gym they won't use, marble lined lobbies or someone to clean their room and make up their bed.

I don't know about other cities but in Amsterdam, people renting out their room/appartment through Air BnB pay taxes like hotels do.

As opposed to how Uber apparantly operates, Air BnB seems a far more fair competitor to the Hotel industry. Before Air BnB it was a lot tougher to find a room in a foreign city and therefor hotels more or less had a monopoly of sorts on that. People would look for a nice room/appartment and all they could book was a room in a building with a swimmingpool, a restaurant, house staff etc etc.

Maybe the hotel industry is a bit late in adapting to changing customer requirements.

A few months ago I had to be in Chicago for 5 days. I had the option booking a hotel at $ 450/night to be close to where I had to be or book a penthouse in the same area through Air BnB at $ 200/night. Not a tough call if it would have been up to me but some company booked and paid the hotel for me. I told them I would have been perfectly happy with the penthouse but they said using Air BnB was against company policy.

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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Geezee » 26 Sep 2017, 15:31

Robert wrote:
Geezee wrote:
WG Kaspar wrote:The difference is that unlike Uber, Air b'n'b lets the owners set the price of the rent and takes a standard commission of around 11%.
It's a similar business model but I can see how that arrangement means they are getting away with regulations easier and putting the onus on the owners.


And they are avoiding all the tax charges associated with a normal hotel, hence destroying the hotel industry. All these tech companies - whether it is Spotify, Amazon, Uber, Google, Facebook, or Airbnb or whatever - are overturning existing business models (watch out for banking, which is the next one in line it seems). If you are engaging with any of these services it seems peculiar to me to have some sort of special vitriol for Uber, as I don't see it as much worse or better than the others I've mentioned - people are getting screwed one way or another, but they were under the old business models as well. But in general I'm surprised at how slow the regulators have adapted to this - as has been widely pointed out, in TFL's own indictment of Uber they are effectively criticising their own shortcomings (particularly on safety/licensing which is ultimately their responsibility).


Although there are similarities, there are more differences.

Uber offers practically the same as regular taxi's. They transport you from A to B. They are cheaper because of their business model. The product they sell however is the same.

Air BnB is different. Air BnB is cheaper, in part because of the business model but also, and I believe mostly, because they have stripped the product hotels are offering to the most essential : a decent room. There are apparantly swats of people that don't want to pay for in house restaurants that they won't use, a gym they won't use, marble lined lobbies or someone to clean their room and make up their bed.

I don't know about other cities but in Amsterdam, people renting out their room/appartment through Air BnB pay taxes like hotels do.

As opposed to how Uber apparantly operates, Air BnB seems a far more fair competitor to the Hotel industry. Before Air BnB it was a lot tougher to find a room in a foreign city and therefor hotels more or less had a monopoly of sorts on that. People would look for a nice room/appartment and all they could book was a room in a building with a swimmingpool, a restaurant, house staff etc etc.

Maybe the hotel industry is a bit late in adapting to changing customer requirements.

A few months ago I had to be in Chicago for 5 days. I had the option booking a hotel at $ 450/night to be close to where I had to be or book a penthouse in the same area through Air BnB at $ 200/night. Not a tough call if it would have been up to me but some company booked and paid the hotel for me. I told them I would have been perfectly happy with the penthouse but they said using Air BnB was against company policy.



There is essentially no difference between Airbnb and Uber. Like Uber, Airbnb largely sidesteps all the basic regulations that are associated with its industry and they have almost no system to monitor hosts/users compliance with laws/regulations/health safety etc (which is why they are cheaper). This is why many companies, especially publicly listed ones, don't allow their employees to use Airbnb or Uber - because ultimately companies also have a responsibility to the safety of their employees when they are travelling.

You can advocate for the efficiency and cheapness of Airbnb all you want, but they are very much in the same boat.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Robert » 29 Sep 2017, 09:21

Geezee wrote:
Robert wrote:
Geezee wrote:
And they are avoiding all the tax charges associated with a normal hotel, hence destroying the hotel industry. All these tech companies - whether it is Spotify, Amazon, Uber, Google, Facebook, or Airbnb or whatever - are overturning existing business models (watch out for banking, which is the next one in line it seems). If you are engaging with any of these services it seems peculiar to me to have some sort of special vitriol for Uber, as I don't see it as much worse or better than the others I've mentioned - people are getting screwed one way or another, but they were under the old business models as well. But in general I'm surprised at how slow the regulators have adapted to this - as has been widely pointed out, in TFL's own indictment of Uber they are effectively criticising their own shortcomings (particularly on safety/licensing which is ultimately their responsibility).


Although there are similarities, there are more differences.

Uber offers practically the same as regular taxi's. They transport you from A to B. They are cheaper because of their business model. The product they sell however is the same.

Air BnB is different. Air BnB is cheaper, in part because of the business model but also, and I believe mostly, because they have stripped the product hotels are offering to the most essential : a decent room. There are apparantly swats of people that don't want to pay for in house restaurants that they won't use, a gym they won't use, marble lined lobbies or someone to clean their room and make up their bed.

I don't know about other cities but in Amsterdam, people renting out their room/appartment through Air BnB pay taxes like hotels do.

As opposed to how Uber apparantly operates, Air BnB seems a far more fair competitor to the Hotel industry. Before Air BnB it was a lot tougher to find a room in a foreign city and therefor hotels more or less had a monopoly of sorts on that. People would look for a nice room/appartment and all they could book was a room in a building with a swimmingpool, a restaurant, house staff etc etc.

Maybe the hotel industry is a bit late in adapting to changing customer requirements.

A few months ago I had to be in Chicago for 5 days. I had the option booking a hotel at $ 450/night to be close to where I had to be or book a penthouse in the same area through Air BnB at $ 200/night. Not a tough call if it would have been up to me but some company booked and paid the hotel for me. I told them I would have been perfectly happy with the penthouse but they said using Air BnB was against company policy.



There is essentially no difference between Airbnb and Uber. Like Uber, Airbnb largely sidesteps all the basic regulations that are associated with its industry and they have almost no system to monitor hosts/users compliance with laws/regulations/health safety etc (which is why they are cheaper). This is why many companies, especially publicly listed ones, don't allow their employees to use Airbnb or Uber - because ultimately companies also have a responsibility to the safety of their employees when they are travelling.

You can advocate for the efficiency and cheapness of Airbnb all you want, but they are very much in the same boat.



Air BnB is not that much in competition with Hilton, Mariott and the likes but rather with small hotels and B&B's. The latter's compliance with laws/regulations/health safety may be questioned as much as Air BnB's. We may scream blue murder over this but it hasn't been a problem untill AirBnB arrived at the scene. The only thing they did was develop a tool through which it is much easier to find a place to sleep and in the process encouraged lots of people to start their own B&B.

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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Geezee » 29 Sep 2017, 10:02

Robert wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Robert wrote:
Although there are similarities, there are more differences.

Uber offers practically the same as regular taxi's. They transport you from A to B. They are cheaper because of their business model. The product they sell however is the same.

Air BnB is different. Air BnB is cheaper, in part because of the business model but also, and I believe mostly, because they have stripped the product hotels are offering to the most essential : a decent room. There are apparantly swats of people that don't want to pay for in house restaurants that they won't use, a gym they won't use, marble lined lobbies or someone to clean their room and make up their bed.

I don't know about other cities but in Amsterdam, people renting out their room/appartment through Air BnB pay taxes like hotels do.

As opposed to how Uber apparantly operates, Air BnB seems a far more fair competitor to the Hotel industry. Before Air BnB it was a lot tougher to find a room in a foreign city and therefor hotels more or less had a monopoly of sorts on that. People would look for a nice room/appartment and all they could book was a room in a building with a swimmingpool, a restaurant, house staff etc etc.

Maybe the hotel industry is a bit late in adapting to changing customer requirements.

A few months ago I had to be in Chicago for 5 days. I had the option booking a hotel at $ 450/night to be close to where I had to be or book a penthouse in the same area through Air BnB at $ 200/night. Not a tough call if it would have been up to me but some company booked and paid the hotel for me. I told them I would have been perfectly happy with the penthouse but they said using Air BnB was against company policy.



There is essentially no difference between Airbnb and Uber. Like Uber, Airbnb largely sidesteps all the basic regulations that are associated with its industry and they have almost no system to monitor hosts/users compliance with laws/regulations/health safety etc (which is why they are cheaper). This is why many companies, especially publicly listed ones, don't allow their employees to use Airbnb or Uber - because ultimately companies also have a responsibility to the safety of their employees when they are travelling.

You can advocate for the efficiency and cheapness of Airbnb all you want, but they are very much in the same boat.



Air BnB is not that much in competition with Hilton, Mariott and the likes but rather with small hotels and B&B's. The latter's compliance with laws/regulations/health safety may be questioned as much as Air BnB's. We may scream blue murder over this but it hasn't been a problem untill AirBnB arrived at the scene. The only thing they did was develop a tool through which it is much easier to find a place to sleep and in the process encouraged lots of people to start their own B&B.


Of course they are in competition with Hilton, Marriott, Starwood etc! - in fact Marriott's unheard of acquisition of Starwood can be seen almost entirely through the lens of dealing with the competition from Airbnb. And that may not shed any tears, but I really don't understand this unwillingness to put Airbnb in the same bucket as Uber. You are either overestimating Uber's "evil", or underestimating Airbnb's.

And of course Uber's main competitor is not the cab firms - it is car ownership.
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Re: Uber loses London licence

Postby Robert » 29 Sep 2017, 10:40

Geezee wrote:
Robert wrote:
Geezee wrote:

There is essentially no difference between Airbnb and Uber. Like Uber, Airbnb largely sidesteps all the basic regulations that are associated with its industry and they have almost no system to monitor hosts/users compliance with laws/regulations/health safety etc (which is why they are cheaper). This is why many companies, especially publicly listed ones, don't allow their employees to use Airbnb or Uber - because ultimately companies also have a responsibility to the safety of their employees when they are travelling.

You can advocate for the efficiency and cheapness of Airbnb all you want, but they are very much in the same boat.



Air BnB is not that much in competition with Hilton, Mariott and the likes but rather with small hotels and B&B's. The latter's compliance with laws/regulations/health safety may be questioned as much as Air BnB's. We may scream blue murder over this but it hasn't been a problem untill AirBnB arrived at the scene. The only thing they did was develop a tool through which it is much easier to find a place to sleep and in the process encouraged lots of people to start their own B&B.


Of course they are in competition with Hilton, Marriott, Starwood etc! - in fact Marriott's unheard of acquisition of Starwood can be seen almost entirely through the lens of dealing with the competition from Airbnb. And that may not shed any tears, but I really don't understand this unwillingness to put Airbnb in the same bucket as Uber. You are either overestimating Uber's "evil", or underestimating Airbnb's.

And of course Uber's main competitor is not the cab firms - it is car ownership.


If Air BnB is in competition with Hilton, it doesn't have a material impact on Hilton. Far from that actually. These are the pre tax income figures of Hilton International:

2016:1.26B

2015:1.5B

2014:1.15B

2013: 698M

2012: 573M

In 2015, Air BnB shifted more rooms than Hilton International. Contrary to Hilton however, in that year Air BnB posted a loss of $3 B.

It may be true that private owership of transport may be Uber's competiton, in a sort of way, but that goes for all taxi firms and public transport. People without access to their own means of transport ( because they simply don't have it, or are abroad or have other reasons not to use it ) are simply 'the market' for taxi firms and public transport. Competition is not people that have their own means of transport but other transport companies trying to win over the same 'market'.