Would Trump press the button?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Well?

Yes
12
71%
No
5
29%
 
Total votes: 17

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37435
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: 22,300 miles above the Earth

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Count Machuki » 12 Aug 2017, 01:20

Damn look at these poll results!
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

Covers Cup Champion 2017

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 13854
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Jimbo » 12 Aug 2017, 01:41

Well, I woke up and the world is still here.

One day at a time. One day at a time. One day at a time.
persona non grata among those who worship at the altar of conventional wisdom

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 64187
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Aug 2017, 08:38

Goat Boy wrote:I'm sure most of us struggle morally and of course we know the consequences and impact of all this.

Has anybody read Five Days In August by Michael Gordin?

Most Americans believe that the Second World War ended because the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan forced it to surrender. Five Days in August boldly presents a different interpretation: that the military did not clearly understand the atomic bomb's revolutionary strategic potential, that the Allies were almost as stunned by the surrender as the Japanese were by the attack, and that not only had experts planned and fully anticipated the need for a third bomb, they were skeptical about whether the atomic bomb would work at all. With these ideas, Michael Gordin reorients the historical and contemporary conversation about the A-bomb and World War II.

Five Days in August explores these and countless other legacies of the atomic bomb in a glaring new light. Daring and iconoclastic, it will result in far-reaching discussions about the significance of the A-bomb, about World War II, and about the moral issues they have spawned.


I looked at that book. Here's a bit further on in the review you posted above :

"Another interesting point in Michael Gordin's book is the idea of the atomic bombs not being considered the "ultimate weapon" until after they were used. In the US military, the bombs were seen as another destructive tool. The scientists who developed the bombs were actually quite surprised at the amount of radiation and its harmfulness."

With the greatest of respect to the reviewer, that is nonsense. Whilst they may have had qualms about its destructive power, the vast majority of the key players in the Manhattan Project were fully aware of what they were doing, and its likely force. If the reviewer is suggesting they were surprised at the destruction in Hiroshima, that's also bollocks. They'd tested the bomb is New Mexico - they were absolutely informed prior to the event.

If anyone wants to read a truly great book on the race for the bomb, this is the one to find (imho). It may just be the greatest non fiction book I've ever read :

Image

Clearly it's quite heavy going and technical sometimes, but it explains everything you need to know, in a brilliantly insightful and concise manner. It takes awhile to read but it's worth it.
In science, the most important criteria for success is not being stunningly full of shit.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 30424
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Goat Boy » 12 Aug 2017, 08:54

Some light bed time reading!
German Dave wrote:Have a long hard look in the mirror will you

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 64187
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Aug 2017, 09:29

Goat Boy wrote:Some light bed time reading!



It's about 800 pages... but it never gets bogged down in technicalities (as a self confessed "non scientist" I can safely say that). It deals with the personalities as much as the physics (and chemistry) itself - and goes right back to Rutherford etc. There's some amazing detail about who contributed what (many of whom are now but brief footnotes in history, sadly) and the way Rhodes ties the whole thing together is utterly magnificent.
It's an astonishing piece of literature, as much as a seriously informed and informative scientific work.

I cannot recommend it highly enough.
In science, the most important criteria for success is not being stunningly full of shit.

User avatar
kewl klive
cultural defective
Posts: 14214
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: Petrus inhibito pompus

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby kewl klive » 12 Aug 2017, 10:51

Count Machuki wrote:Damn look at these poll results!


While you still can.
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

User avatar
The Prof
Composing a revolutionary symphony
Posts: 44896
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby The Prof » 12 Aug 2017, 12:08

The other thing to remember about Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that the Americans were carpet bombing Japan for months before the nuclear attacks. Dropping incendiary devices on towns and cities caused massive firestorms and, even by conservative estimates, many more people died in these attacks than by the 2 nuclear ones.

User avatar
kewl klive
cultural defective
Posts: 14214
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: Petrus inhibito pompus

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby kewl klive » 12 Aug 2017, 12:55

Doing the nuclear.
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

User avatar
Charlie O.
Posts: 38085
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:53
Location: In-A-Badda-La-Wadda, bay-beh

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Aug 2017, 07:02

Diamond Dog wrote:There's some amazing detail about who contributed what (many of whom are now but brief footnotes in history, sadly)

Fun fact: legendary recording engineer-turned-record producer Tom Dowd was a teenaged researcher on the Manhattan Project, working out of Columbia University in NYC. After the war he intended to return to Columbia to get a degree in nuclear physics, but found to his dismay that much of what they were teaching was outdated by what the Manhattan Project had discovered, and he couldn't do anything about it (like correct/inform the teachers) because it was all still classified information. So he went into the music biz instead.

Thanks for the book recommendation, btw.
Image

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17562
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 13 Aug 2017, 11:03

Charlie O. wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:There's some amazing detail about who contributed what (many of whom are now but brief footnotes in history, sadly)

Fun fact: legendary recording engineer-turned-record producer Tom Dowd was a teenaged researcher on the Manhattan Project, working out of Columbia University in NYC. After the war he intended to return to Columbia to get a degree in nuclear physics, but found to his dismay that much of what they were teaching was outdated by what the Manhattan Project had discovered, and he couldn't do anything about it (like correct/inform the teachers) because it was all still classified information. So he went into the music biz instead.

Thanks for the book recommendation, btw.


Hah!

That is beyond mere trivia, by the way. What a story...
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37435
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: 22,300 miles above the Earth

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Count Machuki » 13 Aug 2017, 18:28

The Savage Young Gash wrote:Doing the nuclear.


I'm just burning doing

Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

Covers Cup Champion 2017

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17562
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Would Trump press the button?

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 13 Aug 2017, 18:33



The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.