Fast Food

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Robert
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 07 Aug 2017, 23:03

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Copehead wrote:
This presupposes that poor people have easy, cheap access to decent food and the time to spare to prepare it.

Often they have neither, you try getting the weekly shopping from a big supermarket when you have no car and work long hours for low pay.

It is easy to chastise poor people for making poor decisions when they actually do not have any real choice in the matter, or their choices are massively constrained by poverty of resources and time.

we have to remember that most people defined as living in poverty these days are actually in work, not a bunch of feckless layabouts on the dole.

If you work 9-5 for 30k a year and can toodle along to Waitrose in your 7 year old Volvo it is, I agree, fairly easy to buy cheap nourishing food to take home and prepare.

But not everyone has that luxury.


This presupposes nothing. There is no place where I linked laziness to being poor. In fact, the swath of middle class bcbc ers here happily admitting to having a burger or a take away seem to confirm that convenience drives most of that. I also said and I repeat that, convenience is just another word for being too lazy to do it yourself. I have no problem or opinion about that.

I come from a pretty poor background and I can tell you there was no one in our house, street or wider area that did not know that food someone else prepared for you is always more expensive than when you make it yourself. That is plain common sense and I can demonstrate that again and again an again with every fast food or ready made food proposition you can come up with.

The point of the article was trying to rebrand 'fast food' into 'cheap food'. That is just wrong. In common language most people would associate fast food sooner with shit food than with cheap food. Rightly so as it is just not cheaper than regular food.

Good that you care for the underpaid masses that work long hours but live in poverty but is that really so? Whatever the case, the point remains that if they can afford to buy fast food, they can afford regular food and be better and cheaper of.

So they can't get to a super market but they can get fast food from elsewhere ? That sounds..........I don't know...absurd.
There are parts of the UK where you can't reach a supermarket by foot, bike or public transport ? Maybe but it seems unlikely to me.

Even if this were the case, these days Supermarkets deliver it to your door for 5 or 6 quid. On a week's groceries that's a sound investment as the savings are much more than that. Knock yourself out and order for 2 weeks and it's practically delivered for free.


How are you going to get a family shop from an out of town supermarket home by foot, bike or public transport, have you thought about how many bags you pile into your 7 year old Volvo each week?

You just are not putting yourself in the shoes of these people and thinking it through.

Small supermarkets that you get on local streets are expensive and have small ranges, people sometimes have to work long hours or even 2 jobs, Tescos don't deliver if you live on the 13th floor and the lifts are gone again

Many people cannot afford to pay for 2 weeks food upfront so Tescos don't deliver at all.

50% of the people in this country in work earn 19K or less.

There are good reasons why some people have poor diets, they are cash poor and time poor. If you have to get a taxi to a supermarket and back to get your food home it doesn't look so cheap anymore does it?

Forgive me but I think you have a touch of the Marie Antoinettes here.


Sorry am a bit late in replying but the old Volvo required looking after.

And, sorry for the millions, or hundreds of thousands I forgot to take on board that live on 13th floors with broken down lifts.

For a socialist of your calibre you seem to take it all too easy as a given that unhealthy diets are exclusively a problem of the poor.

Please substantiate.

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Robert
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 07 Aug 2017, 23:06

Fonz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Fonz wrote:
I don't think the 'proles' are actually stupid, but I do think the typical person that eats a lot of fast food could make wiser decisions about what they eat, and the information is out there, easily accessible, and cooking shows on telly have never been more popular if inspiration is in short supply.


So I repeat to you the question I put to Toby..why don't they then?



I'll say it again: education.

Whether from the family unit or from the state.


Ok and while we're on it, who's going to educate the middle class about the negative health impact of alcohol.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby kewl klive » 07 Aug 2017, 23:16

Never mind the choking potential of a bowl of coarsely chopped Tabbouleh.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Red Heifer » 08 Aug 2017, 00:26

Is that before or after the hike?
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Loki
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Loki » 08 Aug 2017, 02:57

Fonz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Fonz wrote:
I don't think the 'proles' are actually stupid, but I do think the typical person that eats a lot of fast food could make wiser decisions about what they eat, and the information is out there, easily accessible, and cooking shows on telly have never been more popular if inspiration is in short supply.


So I repeat to you the question I put to Toby..why don't they then?



I'll say it again: education.

Whether from the family unit or from the state.


All the education in the world is not going to trump depression (and other health problems). Depression seems to be rampant these days, and who wouldn't be depressed if they were in a tenuous financial situation? Not many.

I know whereof I speak as I'm living it. But I can't speak for those with children. As sympathetic as I am, it seems like nothing would stop me from doing the very best for my child - but I have no children so I shouldn't try to judge.

It's really not fair to judge people unless you've been there and know what it's like.


I'm with Copey here.
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Fonz
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Fonz » 08 Aug 2017, 06:37

Loki wrote:
Fonz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
So I repeat to you the question I put to Toby..why don't they then?



I'll say it again: education.

Whether from the family unit or from the state.


All the education in the world is not going to trump depression (and other health problems). Depression seems to be rampant these days, and who wouldn't be depressed if they were in a tenuous financial situation? Not many.

I know whereof I speak as I'm living it. But I can't speak for those with children. As sympathetic as I am, it seems like nothing would stop me from doing the very best for my child - but I have no children so I shouldn't try to judge.

It's really not fair to judge people unless you've been there and know what it's like.


I'm with Copey here.


Who is judging?
Not me.

But neither am I assuming every poor person with a bad diet is depressed.

Some will be, and I am sympathetic to folks battling depression. I've been there.

I would suggest, however, that if people knew more about food, what to buy, how to cook it etc they would be in a better position to look after themselves, depressed or not.
This problem is not confined to depressed 'poor people' and to suggest it is is delusional.

What's wrong with teaching people about the most fundamental thing that they have any real control over?
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Fonz » 08 Aug 2017, 06:53

Robert wrote:
Fonz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
So I repeat to you the question I put to Toby..why don't they then?



I'll say it again: education.

Whether from the family unit or from the state.


Ok and while we're on it, who's going to educate the middle class about the negative health impact of alcohol.


The information is there, whether you are middle-class ,or indeed wc, or whether you consider yourself classless, or whatever.
The message isn't getting through though. Maybe because the long term effects aren't obvious for many years; it's not a simple case of just putting on a few pounds.
Education is part of the answer, and role-modelling and peer pressure have a massive influence.

The gist of my arguments is that, ultimately, people have to take personal responsibility for what they ingest.
Educating them what is good and what is bad for them is crucial to them making wise decisions.

If you have that knowledge but choose to ignore it, well, it's a free country, but don't shift the blame. Take responsibility for your own actions.
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Loki
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Loki » 08 Aug 2017, 07:01

Fonz wrote:
What's wrong with teaching people about the most fundamental thing that they have any real control over?


I didn't say there's anything wrong with it. Education is always important. I'm saying that when depression is an issue, apathy is usually pronounced. It's difficult to care about things, esp. when they require effort. Depression can be exhausting.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Toby » 08 Aug 2017, 07:56

Jack Monroe is a great example of someone who motivated themselves to learn how to cook and eat healthy, nutritious food. Yes, not everyone can do it, but the information is out there.

I realise that top down health initiatives can work, but food is ultimately a cultural thing. It is through the variety of our society, not just the state, that this embracing of food culture and how it is so central to our lives that hopefully this paucity of knowledge can be overcome. It needs individual responsibility at its heart though.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Goat Boy » 08 Aug 2017, 10:13

I think it’s easy to say “take responsibility for your own actions” and it’s a recurring mantra – especially on the right of course - but it’s a simplification that overlooks all kinds of factors - and the impact of those factors - that influence behaviour within groups of people including what G mentions here which is part of the fundamental problem:


Most people are quite sheep-like in their behaviour, they react to fit in with their environment. If you're over 25 from quite a privileged background and all you do is eat MCds and live on pizzas from the supermarket, you'd be viewed as an oddity and quite unworldly and unsophisticated. If you're over 25 and living on some sink estate and doing this, most of your neighbours wouldn't blink an eye.
Most of this debate can be summarised as 'why can't the working class be more like the middle class'? And the answer of course is because they're not middle class.



Some people will always be able to break free from cultural norms but many cannot and that is not a slight on them. I think we are programmed this way to a significant degree. Christ, we learn from imitating, from copying, it’s simply part of our nature to therefore copy our surroundings even as "grown ups". At the heart of issues like this is an uncomfortable truth that some people don’t like to face up to because it runs contrary with how many of us see ourselves (individuals, free thinkers etc) I think. I am naturally uncomfortable with what some call the "nanny state" but I think there is an argument here for more state intervention. At least for a period anyway in an attempt to change things. I mean, the state doesn't have a problem trying to discourage smoking or drug use even if it sometimes does it in a completely ill advised way.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Toby » 08 Aug 2017, 11:43

With education what has to make way in the syllabus for Home economics to be taught?

With smoking and drugs it is ultimately about prevention and with the former, taxation. State intervention with food ( IE a sugar tax) may cause all sorts of unforseen problems I fear.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Samoan » 08 Aug 2017, 11:57

McDonald's sells not just chow but a joyful, fun-filled, *we're making memories here, kids* , bonding, quality time, family experience.
Are you a bad parent for depriving your loved ones of this happiness ?: let's guilt-trip you some more with their newest TV advert -

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Goat Boy » 08 Aug 2017, 12:17

Toby wrote:With education what has to make way in the syllabus for Home economics to be taught?

With smoking and drugs it is ultimately about prevention and with the former, taxation. State intervention with food ( IE a sugar tax) may cause all sorts of unforseen problems I fear.


Well prevention of what is the question. It's not about mitigating risk, that's for sure but that's another debate. The government banned tobacco advertising so it's not just about taxation. The point is the state is happy to intervene in matters of public health. The question is whether you think this is justified in relation to food obviously.

I'm not aware enough of the current syllabus up here or down south to say what I think should be bumped but, I grew up doing home economics, although only from secondary school onwards so we could find space for it then, you know? I'm sure we could find space for it during primary school too. Looking back the teacher read the bible to us ffs.

Fuck it, ditch drama
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Modernist » 08 Aug 2017, 12:41

Toby wrote:With education what has to make way in the syllabus for Home economics to be taught?

.


It is taught, but it's called something else.

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The Modernist
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Modernist » 08 Aug 2017, 12:45

Sorry, but not as a compulsory part of the syllabus, which is what you meant.
Article on the current state of play.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/98 ... -menu.html

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Goat Boy » 08 Aug 2017, 12:47

We could still ditch drama though
Copehead wrote:I was helping out the victims of virtue signaling in the Ghettos before this was even an issue in the wider world.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Samoan » 08 Aug 2017, 12:51

There used to be a McDonalds at Guy's Hospital: they paid top dollar to locate it there.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/mcdonalds-opens-at-guys-1563608.html

Guy's hospital in south London became the first in Europe to offer staff and patients a McDonald's burger on site, when a 115- seat restaurant opened. Sir Philip Harris, chairman of Guy's, said: 'This is in keeping with our trust charter commitment to improve conditions for staff.'

It only closed last year to make way for a Science Gallery.

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/8629

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Last edited by Samoan on 08 Aug 2017, 13:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Great Defector » 08 Aug 2017, 12:54

Was there not a study, (i'll have a quick butchers for it) saying that buying and eating healthy is actually cheaper than buying shit ready made food? I think it worked on the premise that eating healthy and drinking water suppresses the hungry feeling and also helps with your mood so you're less likely to comfort eat also.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Nit Picking Prick » 08 Aug 2017, 13:08

Goat Boy wrote:We could still ditch drama though


NEVER

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 08 Aug 2017, 15:33

Samoan wrote:McDonald's sells not just chow but a joyful, fun-filled, *we're making memories here, kids* , bonding, quality time, family experience.
Are you a bad parent for depriving your loved ones of this happiness ?: let's guilt-trip you some more with their newest TV advert -



:lol:

Is not going to McD with your kids a moral crime? A severe incapacity to rear children? Fit for incarceration?
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