Fast Food

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Modernist
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Modernist » 04 Aug 2017, 22:56

Toby wrote:Education on food comes from the family unit. It is not the responsibility of the state to educate people about fucking food.


So what do you do when there are so many families who lack basic knowledge on food?

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Toby » 04 Aug 2017, 23:09

The Modernist wrote:
So what do you do when there are so many families who lack basic knowledge on food?


They can use a bit of individual responsibility and find out themselves. Join a library and get out some books about food. Watch some TV programs! Look on the internet, use a smartphone or whatever.

I see no reason why the state should have to do this - it's pretty elementary stuff.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Sneehosifatz » 04 Aug 2017, 23:33

my neighbor doesn't have to ask me how my mother's doing but I think it's nice when he does.

you stand too close to a construction site it could hurt your hearing. put up a sign. yeah, smart people should be able to figure it out but it's not going to kill anybody to say so. you have sex without a condom you might get a disease. I don't mind letting people know. you eat too many trans fats then your heart might have trouble working. maybe somebody hasn't thought about that. I see no harm in reminding them.

personally, I'd far prefer a "Nanny State" to some Mad Max bullshit where it's every man for himself.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Hugh » 04 Aug 2017, 23:48

Toby wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
So what do you do when there are so many families who lack basic knowledge on food?


They can use a bit of individual responsibility and find out themselves. Join a library and get out some books about food. Watch some TV programs! Look on the internet, use a smartphone or whatever.

I see no reason why the state should have to do this - it's pretty elementary stuff.


Which TV programmes do you think they would identify with?

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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Modernist » 05 Aug 2017, 00:08

Toby wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
So what do you do when there are so many families who lack basic knowledge on food?


They can use a bit of individual responsibility and find out themselves. Join a library and get out some books about food. Watch some TV programs! Look on the internet, use a smartphone or whatever.

I see no reason why the state should have to do this - it's pretty elementary stuff.


There seems a huge cultural divide here..yes they can all do those things, but there must a reason why they don't. I don't buy it's just because they're feckless!
In many ways this is an example of cultural capital. If you have generations of families who have lost the required skills or knowledge, then you might well grow up wholly ignorant of this stuff.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 05 Aug 2017, 00:22

Robert wrote:
Toby wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/aug/04/life-crushingly-unacceptable-readers-fast-food-england

“It matters because the term fast food hints at a lazy, feckless attitude – people who just can’t be bothered to source or prepare their own food, or even wait for it: people who don’t care what they put into their bodies, or their children’s bodies, so long as it can be done briskly.

Fast food denotes automatic judgment and stereotyping of the consumers – it becomes their fault for choosing fast over quality. By contrast, cheap food tells a fuller (fairer) story and one that at least acknowledges a harsh economic truth – this type of food (fast, junk, but above all cheap) could be all that broke, harassed people can afford.”


What do you think?


Well, I would say that Frank's response to your OP confirms that the term lends itself to a fair amount of prejudice. :lol:

Didn't read the link but your quote, is untrue.

A typical fat food product like a big mac contains 90 gr meat. Supermarket value is €0,90. A bun can be had for say €0,25, A slice of Cheese, €0,30,
a pickle, slice of tomato..... say altoghether another €0,35. The price to make it yourself ( but considerably better!) is €1,80 where MacDo sells it for € 3,75

Laziness, convenience and lack of interest & knowledge is what drives fast food succes and certainly not 'it's all they can afford'


This presupposes that poor people have easy, cheap access to decent food and the time to spare to prepare it.

Often they have neither, you try getting the weekly shopping from a big supermarket when you have no car and work long hours for low pay.

It is easy to chastise poor people for making poor decisions when they actually do not have any real choice in the matter, or their choices are massively constrained by poverty of resources and time.

we have to remember that most people defined as living in poverty these days are actually in work, not a bunch of feckless layabouts on the dole.

If you work 9-5 for 30k a year and can toodle along to Waitrose in your 7 year old Volvo it is, I agree, fairly easy to buy cheap nourishing food to take home and prepare.

But not everyone has that luxury.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Jimbo » 05 Aug 2017, 00:32

Classic Rock Sneelock wrote:My theory is that it's called "fast food" because people expect it to be fast.


Ask a Japanese person to spell "faasto foodo" and chances are he will write "FIRST food". I have seen small restaurants, snack shops which advertise 'First Food" on their signs. And indeed there is something kinda relatable to being faasto and food coming quickly.

Since Bernie was running for Prez there's been a "Fight for Fifteen," a national mandatory 15 dollar minimum wage that would especially help fast food workers. Conservatives argue that employers should pay whatever they want and however much an employee will accept, it's Libertarianism 101, man. So this one guy I was listening to says he was in Seattle where the city on its own has instituted a mandatory 15 buck per hour wage and you know what he saw at the Seattle airport McDonalds? Automated cashiers where you place your order on an iPad. The point being if an employer is forced to pay a high wage he will automate thus hiring fewer workers. Does he have a point?
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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Great Defector » 05 Aug 2017, 00:37

I just like the burger king burgers, their chips/fries are pathetic. But a double Bacon and cheese.................get in my belly!
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Sneehosifatz » 05 Aug 2017, 00:44

Jimbo wrote:Since Bernie was running for Prez there's been a "Fight for Fifteen," a national mandatory 15 dollar minimum wage that would especially help fast food workers. Conservatives argue that employers should pay whatever they want and however much an employee will accept, it's Libertarianism 101, man. So this one guy I was listening to says he was in Seattle where the city on its own has instituted a mandatory 15 buck per hour wage and you know what he saw at the Seattle airport McDonalds? Automated cashiers where you place your order on an iPad. The point being if an employer is forced to pay a high wage he will automate thus hiring fewer workers. Does he have a point?


you tell me. ;)
would you use it? it all depends on the customers, man.
McD's has been trying to roll those things out for a while - so far customers mostly reject them.
I think it's like the supermarket - some people are intimidated and aren't sure how to use them.

Me, I won't let McDonalds off the hook. I think the idea that they have executives taking tax write offs when people can't pay their rent - it's bullshit.
No, they don't have to share if they don't want to. fine. McDonalds has been falling WAY to the middle of a pack they once fronted (here in Der States anyway) Me, I think they've got it coming especially when other chains are making more of an effort to give hours, promotion opportunities etc..

unfortunately, it's just a matter of time. Like ordering food online people will get less intimidated and get used to using the i-pad or kiosk or whatever.
Last night at the grocery store, the auto cashier was the longest line. to my knowledge, this has never happened on one of my trips to the store. I watched the people in line and wondered why. They looked at their phones and waited their turns and it dawned on me....
as little human contact as possible!

it depends on the customers.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Jimbo » 05 Aug 2017, 01:28

Classic Rock Sneelock wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Since Bernie was running for Prez there's been a "Fight for Fifteen," a national mandatory 15 dollar minimum wage that would especially help fast food workers. Conservatives argue that employers should pay whatever they want and however much an employee will accept, it's Libertarianism 101, man. So this one guy I was listening to says he was in Seattle where the city on its own has instituted a mandatory 15 buck per hour wage and you know what he saw at the Seattle airport McDonalds? Automated cashiers where you place your order on an iPad. The point being if an employer is forced to pay a high wage he will automate thus hiring fewer workers. Does he have a point?


you tell me. ;)


Classic Rock Sneelock wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Since Bernie was running for Prez there's been a "Fight for Fifteen," a national mandatory 15 dollar minimum wage that would especially help fast food workers. Conservatives argue that employers should pay whatever they want and however much an employee will accept, it's Libertarianism 101, man. So this one guy I was listening to says he was in Seattle where the city on its own has instituted a mandatory 15 buck per hour wage and you know what he saw at the Seattle airport McDonalds? Automated cashiers where you place your order on an iPad. The point being if an employer is forced to pay a high wage he will automate thus hiring fewer workers. Does he have a point?


you tell me. ;)



If any business is making a good profit they should share it with the workers. But restaurants and their workers' wages has always been a tough call, what with that odd custom you call "tipping." When I was a kid working as a busboy at a Catskill resort, somehow the hotel could skirt the law and didn't have to pay even the minimum wage, but they did pay something. But I did all right thanks to tips. Should McDonalds have a tip jar?

Automation and progress has been most obvious to me in cases where money is exchanged. I guess this goes as far back as wowing me with the ATM outside the bank building. I didn't freak out that a teller was deprived of a job because of the ATM. Didn't hear too much from the tellers union either. Where there used to be a bank of ticket punchers at train stations now most riders swipe a plastic card and enter the train system.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby echolalia » 05 Aug 2017, 01:59

I like the Filet-O-Fish or McFish or whatever it’s called, in McDonalds. They never advertise it but it’s there!

I’ve noticed if you don’t have the chips you don’t feel ill afterwards – so nowadays I have a Filet-O-Fish and a cheeseburger and it’s fine.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby The Red Heifer » 05 Aug 2017, 12:58

Nikki Gradual wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I was always a Burger King man. When I was in Oz there was a period when I'd eat there everyday.


**smartarse alert**

Hungry Jacks maybe, but not Burger King.

**smartarsery over**


Don't get so smartarsey so quick son, my first job was at the Penrith Burger King (the 10000th worldwide franchise actually). Both Burger King and Hungry Jack's existed side by side for a few years.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 05 Aug 2017, 15:32

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Toby wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/aug/04/life-crushingly-unacceptable-readers-fast-food-england



What do you think?


Well, I would say that Frank's response to your OP confirms that the term lends itself to a fair amount of prejudice. :lol:

Didn't read the link but your quote, is untrue.

A typical fat food product like a big mac contains 90 gr meat. Supermarket value is €0,90. A bun can be had for say €0,25, A slice of Cheese, €0,30,
a pickle, slice of tomato..... say altoghether another €0,35. The price to make it yourself ( but considerably better!) is €1,80 where MacDo sells it for € 3,75

Laziness, convenience and lack of interest & knowledge is what drives fast food succes and certainly not 'it's all they can afford'


This presupposes that poor people have easy, cheap access to decent food and the time to spare to prepare it.

Often they have neither, you try getting the weekly shopping from a big supermarket when you have no car and work long hours for low pay.

It is easy to chastise poor people for making poor decisions when they actually do not have any real choice in the matter, or their choices are massively constrained by poverty of resources and time.

we have to remember that most people defined as living in poverty these days are actually in work, not a bunch of feckless layabouts on the dole.

If you work 9-5 for 30k a year and can toodle along to Waitrose in your 7 year old Volvo it is, I agree, fairly easy to buy cheap nourishing food to take home and prepare.

But not everyone has that luxury.


This presupposes nothing. There is no place where I linked laziness to being poor. In fact, the swath of middle class bcbc ers here happily admitting to having a burger or a take away seem to confirm that convenience drives most of that. I also said and I repeat that, convenience is just another word for being too lazy to do it yourself. I have no problem or opinion about that.

I come from a pretty poor background and I can tell you there was no one in our house, street or wider area that did not know that food someone else prepared for you is always more expensive than when you make it yourself. That is plain common sense and I can demonstrate that again and again an again with every fast food or ready made food proposition you can come up with.

The point of the article was trying to rebrand 'fast food' into 'cheap food'. That is just wrong. In common language most people would associate fast food sooner with shit food than with cheap food. Rightly so as it is just not cheaper than regular food.

Good that you care for the underpaid masses that work long hours but live in poverty but is that really so? Whatever the case, the point remains that if they can afford to buy fast food, they can afford regular food and be better and cheaper of.

So they can't get to a super market but they can get fast food from elsewhere ? That sounds..........I don't know...absurd.
There are parts of the UK where you can't reach a supermarket by foot, bike or public transport ? Maybe but it seems unlikely to me.

Even if this were the case, these days Supermarkets deliver it to your door for 5 or 6 quid. On a week's groceries that's a sound investment as the savings are much more than that. Knock yourself out and order for 2 weeks and it's practically delivered for free.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby neville harp » 05 Aug 2017, 16:11

The first reasonable points that Copehead has ever made and he still cops it :)
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Rayge » 05 Aug 2017, 16:53

In the two years or so that I was actually grindingly cash poor in my early twenties, I was enormously grateful for the chip shop three doors away.
While I was more savvy than most about nutrition (I've always been interested in food, and actually read books about it as a teenage male in the 1960s, a rare thing), and cooked a lot of stews, soups and so on, as well as eating in-season fruit and veg from stalls and greengrocers, there were some times when I just need fuel, and a large bag of chips fitted the bill.
Other things I noted on a quick trip through (although half the post seem to be from people I have on ignore, so I might be repeating stuff). (1) Vegetarian fast food is still quite difficult to come by: hummus, pita and salad from a kebab joint is the best bet, while chippies (save for chips) and Chinese takeaways are no-gos. (2) For a childless middle-class person who barely lives here any more, Copehead has a remarkably good grasp of the logistics of food shopping for families with working parents on low incomes. (3) Supermarket food is pretty much always inferior in quality because of its 'convenience', which involves a good deal of logistics and inappropriate storage and packaging.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 16:56

Rayge wrote:In the two years or so that I was actually grindingly cash poor in my early twenties, I was enormously grateful for the chip shop three doors away.
While I was more savvy than most about nutrition (I've always been interested in food, and actually read books about it as a teenage male in the 1960s, a rare thing), and cooked a lot of stews, soups and so on, as well as eating in-season fruit and veg from stalls and greengrocers, there were some times when I just need fuel, and a large bag of chips fitted the bill.
Other things I noted on a quick trip through (although half the post seem to be from people I have on ignore, so I might be repeating stuff). (1) Vegetarian fast food is still quite difficult to come by: hummus, pita and salad from a kebab joint is the best bet, while chippies (save for chips) and Chinese takeaways are no-gos. (2) For a childless middle-class person who barely lives here any more, Copehead has a remarkably good grasp of the logistics of food shopping for families with working parents on low incomes. (3) Supermarket food is pretty much always inferior in quality because of its 'convenience', which involves a good deal of logistics and inappropriate storage and packaging.


Good call, Rayge.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Six String » 05 Aug 2017, 17:02

sloopjohnc wrote:
Toby wrote:
Dr. B. Eef wrote:
Absolute bollocks. It's the same as anywhere else, you get the same quality in their supermarkets as here. Stop romanticising.



I'm not saying that there isn't shit food in Italy.

But at the same time there is natural produce that is just superior. I stayed at a friends near Anzio a couple of years ago and he had lemons growing in his garden that were just amazing - huge things that you just don't see over here and had an incredible smell and taste to them.


California is a lot like Italy in climate and food growing. We get the same shit produce from Argentina during off seasons, but during season we tend to get more locally produced stuff.

But. . . 99% of any supermarket produce has been modified more for shipping ease as it has for taste.

Here, you have to go to the weekend farmers' markets many cities have where local growers come in and sell their stuff at stands.


I avoid those southern hemisphere fruits and vegetables, Mexico too. I don't eat fresh tomatoes in the winter either. California has fresh produce year around, it's just that it isn't the same stuff twelve months a year. The winter provides many cool weather vegetables like leafy greens, brussel sprouts, root vegetables, citrus fruits and even strawberries from SoCal though I tend to avoid the berries as they usually aren't very sweet or flavorful. I eat dried fruit on my cereal instead. I rarely buy produce in a supermarket even though the local chains have been buying more local crops in recent years. It's a real crap shoot at the store whereas buying from the same growers at the farmer's market means once you figure out who's growing the stuff you like, you simply return to their stands every week. The growers are consistent whereas the stores buy whatever a distributor is offering. If the produce sits in a warehouse the sugars convert to starch and the texture of the produce changes and not for the better.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Nikki Gradual » 05 Aug 2017, 18:51

ThE rEd HeIfEr HaS gOoD tAsTe In MuSiC wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:I was always a Burger King man. When I was in Oz there was a period when I'd eat there everyday.


**smartarse alert**

Hungry Jacks maybe, but not Burger King.

**smartarsery over**


Don't get so smartarsey so quick son, my first job was at the Penrith Burger King (the 10000th worldwide franchise actually). Both Burger King and Hungry Jack's existed side by side for a few years.


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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 06 Aug 2017, 01:49

Robert wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Well, I would say that Frank's response to your OP confirms that the term lends itself to a fair amount of prejudice. :lol:

Didn't read the link but your quote, is untrue.

A typical fat food product like a big mac contains 90 gr meat. Supermarket value is €0,90. A bun can be had for say €0,25, A slice of Cheese, €0,30,
a pickle, slice of tomato..... say altoghether another €0,35. The price to make it yourself ( but considerably better!) is €1,80 where MacDo sells it for € 3,75

Laziness, convenience and lack of interest & knowledge is what drives fast food succes and certainly not 'it's all they can afford'


This presupposes that poor people have easy, cheap access to decent food and the time to spare to prepare it.

Often they have neither, you try getting the weekly shopping from a big supermarket when you have no car and work long hours for low pay.

It is easy to chastise poor people for making poor decisions when they actually do not have any real choice in the matter, or their choices are massively constrained by poverty of resources and time.

we have to remember that most people defined as living in poverty these days are actually in work, not a bunch of feckless layabouts on the dole.

If you work 9-5 for 30k a year and can toodle along to Waitrose in your 7 year old Volvo it is, I agree, fairly easy to buy cheap nourishing food to take home and prepare.

But not everyone has that luxury.


This presupposes nothing. There is no place where I linked laziness to being poor. In fact, the swath of middle class bcbc ers here happily admitting to having a burger or a take away seem to confirm that convenience drives most of that. I also said and I repeat that, convenience is just another word for being too lazy to do it yourself. I have no problem or opinion about that.

I come from a pretty poor background and I can tell you there was no one in our house, street or wider area that did not know that food someone else prepared for you is always more expensive than when you make it yourself. That is plain common sense and I can demonstrate that again and again an again with every fast food or ready made food proposition you can come up with.

The point of the article was trying to rebrand 'fast food' into 'cheap food'. That is just wrong. In common language most people would associate fast food sooner with shit food than with cheap food. Rightly so as it is just not cheaper than regular food.

Good that you care for the underpaid masses that work long hours but live in poverty but is that really so? Whatever the case, the point remains that if they can afford to buy fast food, they can afford regular food and be better and cheaper of.

So they can't get to a super market but they can get fast food from elsewhere ? That sounds..........I don't know...absurd.
There are parts of the UK where you can't reach a supermarket by foot, bike or public transport ? Maybe but it seems unlikely to me.

Even if this were the case, these days Supermarkets deliver it to your door for 5 or 6 quid. On a week's groceries that's a sound investment as the savings are much more than that. Knock yourself out and order for 2 weeks and it's practically delivered for free.


How are you going to get a family shop from an out of town supermarket home by foot, bike or public transport, have you thought about how many bags you pile into your 7 year old Volvo each week?

You just are not putting yourself in the shoes of these people and thinking it through.

Small supermarkets that you get on local streets are expensive and have small ranges, people sometimes have to work long hours or even 2 jobs, Tescos don't deliver if you live on the 13th floor and the lifts are gone again

Many people cannot afford to pay for 2 weeks food upfront so Tescos don't deliver at all.

50% of the people in this country in work earn 19K or less.

There are good reasons why some people have poor diets, they are cash poor and time poor. If you have to get a taxi to a supermarket and back to get your food home it doesn't look so cheap anymore does it?

Forgive me but I think you have a touch of the Marie Antoinettes here.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Fonz » 06 Aug 2017, 08:31

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Copehead wrote:
This presupposes that poor people have easy, cheap access to decent food and the time to spare to prepare it.

Often they have neither, you try getting the weekly shopping from a big supermarket when you have no car and work long hours for low pay.

It is easy to chastise poor people for making poor decisions when they actually do not have any real choice in the matter, or their choices are massively constrained by poverty of resources and time.

we have to remember that most people defined as living in poverty these days are actually in work, not a bunch of feckless layabouts on the dole.

If you work 9-5 for 30k a year and can toodle along to Waitrose in your 7 year old Volvo it is, I agree, fairly easy to buy cheap nourishing food to take home and prepare.

But not everyone has that luxury.


This presupposes nothing. There is no place where I linked laziness to being poor. In fact, the swath of middle class bcbc ers here happily admitting to having a burger or a take away seem to confirm that convenience drives most of that. I also said and I repeat that, convenience is just another word for being too lazy to do it yourself. I have no problem or opinion about that.

I come from a pretty poor background and I can tell you there was no one in our house, street or wider area that did not know that food someone else prepared for you is always more expensive than when you make it yourself. That is plain common sense and I can demonstrate that again and again an again with every fast food or ready made food proposition you can come up with.

The point of the article was trying to rebrand 'fast food' into 'cheap food'. That is just wrong. In common language most people would associate fast food sooner with shit food than with cheap food. Rightly so as it is just not cheaper than regular food.

Good that you care for the underpaid masses that work long hours but live in poverty but is that really so? Whatever the case, the point remains that if they can afford to buy fast food, they can afford regular food and be better and cheaper of.

So they can't get to a super market but they can get fast food from elsewhere ? That sounds..........I don't know...absurd.
There are parts of the UK where you can't reach a supermarket by foot, bike or public transport ? Maybe but it seems unlikely to me.

Even if this were the case, these days Supermarkets deliver it to your door for 5 or 6 quid. On a week's groceries that's a sound investment as the savings are much more than that. Knock yourself out and order for 2 weeks and it's practically delivered for free.


How are you going to get a family shop from an out of town supermarket home by foot, bike or public transport, have you thought about how many bags you pile into your 7 year old Volvo each week?

You just are not putting yourself in the shoes of these people and thinking it through.

Small supermarkets that you get on local streets are expensive and have small ranges, people sometimes have to work long hours or even 2 jobs, Tescos don't deliver if you live on the 13th floor and the lifts are gone again

Many people cannot afford to pay for 2 weeks food upfront so Tescos don't deliver at all.

50% of the people in this country in work earn 19K or less.

There are good reasons why some people have poor diets, they are cash poor and time poor. If you have to get a taxi to a supermarket and back to get your food home it doesn't look so cheap anymore does it?

Forgive me but I think you have a touch of the Marie Antoinettes here.


I understand that 'some' people may be both cash and time poor, but I believe the number 'actually' working two jobs, 50 plus hours a week, is relatively small compared with the number of people who have shitty diets and eat rubbish food.
I would be fascinated to see a Venn diagram of where these populations intersect.
I would maintain that good wholesome food, if not the actual bestest quality imaginable, is still accessible to anyone outside of a rural area, for way less than 'fast food'
I was a student once. Fast food was a rare luxury. I still managed to eat well.

Education is the key, and though it should be a parental responsibility many adults simply don't have the knowledge or wisdom to teach their kids.
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