Fast Food

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Harvey K-Tel
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 09 Aug 2017, 19:11

Count Machuki wrote:
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
THE FILING FEE wrote:That's true.

It's just a matter of practise really, isn't it? you can throw together something really good, cheaply, in just a few minutes.


Like Van Morrison did over the past 30 years?


:lol:

that's a good burn


But...but...he...oh, never mind.
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Robert
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 09 Aug 2017, 23:51

Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
THE FILING FEE wrote:That's true.

It's just a matter of practise really, isn't it? you can throw together something really good, cheaply, in just a few minutes.


Like Van Morrison did over the past 30 years?


Joking aside, are we going to get those numbers you promised? The same question to Copehead btw, a bit of substance is appreciated.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 10 Aug 2017, 00:52

Robert wrote:
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
THE FILING FEE wrote:That's true.

It's just a matter of practise really, isn't it? you can throw together something really good, cheaply, in just a few minutes.


Like Van Morrison did over the past 30 years?


Joking aside, are we going to get those numbers you promised? The same question to Copehead btw, a bit of substance is appreciated.


I don't think I need numbers or substance to suggest a little empathy may be in order.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Fonz » 10 Aug 2017, 09:08

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
Like Van Morrison did over the past 30 years?


Joking aside, are we going to get those numbers you promised? The same question to Copehead btw, a bit of substance is appreciated.


I don't think I need numbers or substance to suggest a little empathy may be in order.


I don't see a lack of empathy from anyone here.
No one has suggested that sick people should be chastised for having a poor diet.
Implying that anyone who contests your views lacks empathy just serves to stifle debate.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 11 Aug 2017, 01:24

Fonz wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Joking aside, are we going to get those numbers you promised? The same question to Copehead btw, a bit of substance is appreciated.


I don't think I need numbers or substance to suggest a little empathy may be in order.


I don't see a lack of empathy from anyone here.
No one has suggested that sick people should be chastised for having a poor diet.
Implying that anyone who contests your views lacks empathy just serves to stifle debate.

Really, have you looked a bit?

I wasn't implying that anyone who contests my views lacks empathy anyway, just that they are wrong and stupid.

And if there is one thing you should have worked about me by now it is that no one likes a bit of back and forth more than I do so the idea that I want to shut down the debate, especially when I am so obviously right that even Goat Boy can see it, is risible :)

I was just pointing out that it is very easy to think people having a poor diet is their own fault because you have a good diet so how hard can it be without really thinking through the logistics of being resource and time poor.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 11 Aug 2017, 01:43

Copehead wrote:
Fonz wrote:
Copehead wrote:
I don't think I need numbers or substance to suggest a little empathy may be in order.


I don't see a lack of empathy from anyone here.
No one has suggested that sick people should be chastised for having a poor diet.
Implying that anyone who contests your views lacks empathy just serves to stifle debate.

Really, have you looked a bit?

I wasn't implying that anyone who contests my views lacks empathy anyway, just that they are wrong and stupid.

And if there is one thing you should have worked about me by now it is that no one likes a bit of back and force more than I do so the idea that I want to shut down the debate, especially when I am so obviously right that even Goat Boy can see it, is risible :)

I was just pointing out that it is very easy to think people having a poor diet is their own fault because you have a good diet so how hard can it be without really thinking through the logistics of being resource and time poor.


A back and force! :lol: keep them coming.

But, well put. Can you read?

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 11 Aug 2017, 02:35

Robert wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Fonz wrote:
I don't see a lack of empathy from anyone here.
No one has suggested that sick people should be chastised for having a poor diet.
Implying that anyone who contests your views lacks empathy just serves to stifle debate.

Really, have you looked a bit?

I wasn't implying that anyone who contests my views lacks empathy anyway, just that they are wrong and stupid.

And if there is one thing you should have worked about me by now it is that no one likes a bit of back and force more than I do so the idea that I want to shut down the debate, especially when I am so obviously right that even Goat Boy can see it, is risible :)

I was just pointing out that it is very easy to think people having a poor diet is their own fault because you have a good diet so how hard can it be without really thinking through the logistics of being resource and time poor.


A back and force! :lol: keep them coming.

But, well put. Can you read?


I think when you are reduced to pointing out someones typos you can safely be said to have had your arse handed to you in the primary debate wouldn't you say?
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 11 Aug 2017, 07:10

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
Copehead wrote:Really, have you looked a bit?

I wasn't implying that anyone who contests my views lacks empathy anyway, just that they are wrong and stupid.

And if there is one thing you should have worked about me by now it is that no one likes a bit of back and force more than I do so the idea that I want to shut down the debate, especially when I am so obviously right that even Goat Boy can see it, is risible :)

I was just pointing out that it is very easy to think people having a poor diet is their own fault because you have a good diet so how hard can it be without really thinking through the logistics of being resource and time poor.


A back and force! :lol: keep them coming.

But, well put. Can you read?


I think when you are reduced to pointing out someones typos you can safely be said to have had your arse handed to you in the primary debate wouldn't you say?


No, not really as the lolling was not about the typo eventhough I quoted it, but about the idea you think you're having a back and force when you're making statements that you cannot support and ignore requests
to substantiate them.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 11 Aug 2017, 10:14

Robert wrote:
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
THE FILING FEE wrote:That's true.

It's just a matter of practise really, isn't it? you can throw together something really good, cheaply, in just a few minutes.


Like Van Morrison did over the past 30 years?


Joking aside, are we going to get those numbers you promised? The same question to Copehead btw, a bit of substance is appreciated.


Thank you for reminding. As long as Trump keeps his fingers away from his football there's time to investigate.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 12 Aug 2017, 02:22

Robert wrote:
No, not really as the lolling was not about the typo eventhough I quoted it, but about the idea you think you're having a back and force when you're making statements that you cannot support and ignore requests
to substantiate them.


I was giving a personal opinion about the lack of empathy or evidence of thought that went into some of the posts on here. All the support that needs is a quick glance at your efforts.

I don't need to back up that with anything, it is my personal opinion that some of these posts were not just callous but stupid because you had obviously put next to no thought in to why some people had shit diets beyond them being too thick to do anything else.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 12 Aug 2017, 10:06

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
No, not really as the lolling was not about the typo eventhough I quoted it, but about the idea you think you're having a back and force when you're making statements that you cannot support and ignore requests
to substantiate them.


I was giving a personal opinion about the lack of empathy or evidence of thought that went into some of the posts on here. All the support that needs is a quick glance at your efforts.

I don't need to back up that with anything, it is my personal opinion that some of these posts were not just callous but stupid because you had obviously put next to no thought in to why some people had shit diets beyond them being too thick to do anything else.


Purely on my feelings, I agree. It's simply indecent to accuse obese (perhaps diabetic) people of being entirely guilty of their own condition. Just like blaming the victims of the current opioid and alcohol and tobacco storm that is raging amidst so many poor middle aged Americans for being stupid and cowardly and weak.

This is in essence the purely neoliberal view. And it is an inhuman way of looking at your fellow citizens.

Oh, I will find numbers and stats, here are two articles on that opioid crisis (the references to which I know off the top of my head):

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/49/15078.full

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... deaton.pdf
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 12 Aug 2017, 11:12

Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
No, not really as the lolling was not about the typo eventhough I quoted it, but about the idea you think you're having a back and force when you're making statements that you cannot support and ignore requests
to substantiate them.


I was giving a personal opinion about the lack of empathy or evidence of thought that went into some of the posts on here. All the support that needs is a quick glance at your efforts.

I don't need to back up that with anything, it is my personal opinion that some of these posts were not just callous but stupid because you had obviously put next to no thought in to why some people had shit diets beyond them being too thick to do anything else.


A simple 'no' to my question if you can read would have been shorter.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Jimbo » 12 Aug 2017, 16:39

The heartless exploiters of poor and downtrodden Asians, McDonalds Japan, is pushing two new products with a promotion sure to snare even more of the pathetic bastards. One product is a cutlet fried hamburger and the other is a cutlet-fried roast beef burger. In Tokyo they're pushing the burger and the roast beef is for sale only in Osaka.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Robert » 12 Aug 2017, 17:09

Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Robert wrote:
No, not really as the lolling was not about the typo eventhough I quoted it, but about the idea you think you're having a back and force when you're making statements that you cannot support and ignore requests
to substantiate them.


I was giving a personal opinion about the lack of empathy or evidence of thought that went into some of the posts on here. All the support that needs is a quick glance at your efforts.

I don't need to back up that with anything, it is my personal opinion that some of these posts were not just callous but stupid because you had obviously put next to no thought in to why some people had shit diets beyond them being too thick to do anything else.


Purely on my feelings, I agree. It's simply indecent to accuse obese (perhaps diabetic) people of being entirely guilty of their own condition. Just like blaming the victims of the current opioid and alcohol and tobacco storm that is raging amidst so many poor middle aged Americans for being stupid and cowardly and weak.

This is in essence the purely neoliberal view. And it is an inhuman way of looking at your fellow citizens.

Oh, I will find numbers and stats, here are two articles on that opioid crisis (the references to which I know off the top of my head):

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/49/15078.full

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... deaton.pdf

This offers no meaningfull insights to the discussion on hand.

You and Copehead linked fast food to poor people ( eventhough someone posted a link that fast food is
had through all demographics).
Then you mentioned that fast food was often combined with alcohol and smoking.

Just a link that confirms all that please.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 12 Aug 2017, 17:38

I started out with general searches, to little avail. You get simplified and conflicting reports on food habits across social classes.

I do have my doubts about how a 'middle class' is being defined nowadays - some sources use the term offhandedly, as if this construct is constantly valid over decades; I am convinced it is not. Middle classes solidify a society; but since income inequality in developed countries reached its immoral dimensions of today, it looks like the middle classes have become ever more fragile and vulnerable.

So I looked further.

I found this article:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/1/6.long

(I'm still trying to work out what the situation as a whole is - it may well be that I will find things that contradict my own opinions, and that's not bad in itself.)
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Copehead » 13 Aug 2017, 04:21

[quote="Robert"]
You and Copehead linked fast food to poor people (quote]

I have never even mentioned fast food.

The only point I have made is that a moments thought throws up a whole host of reasons why some poor people have poor diets beyond the simplistic - it is their own fault I feed myself quite nutritiously and I am not rich - guff that some people on this thread seem to think covers it.

I have mentioned a good few but rather than ponder them you'd rather demand numbers, peer reviewed studies I suppose, which don't exist and don't need to for it to be pretty obvious that some poor people will fail to eat nutritiously for these reasons. The most obvious being it takes more time and resources to buy healthy food and cook it, resources in this case does not even need to mean money, I have pointed out the problems that would entail if you are a family with two working parents without a car for instance.

You chose to ignore all this in some blinkered attempt to try and show that you had put more than a nano second's thought into your original postings but all you are doing is highlighting the problems with your original position - it is simplistic and treats these people as a lumpen group rather than as a wide demographic with many different problems such as spanning mental health, lack of time, lack of transport and poor education.

As I said a little empathy and a few moments thought is all that is needed, demonising people and trying to make them the authors of all their misfortunes is just away of washing your hands of people, the right has been playing that tune on heavy rotation for the past few years, firstly with the disabled then with the poor; in order to get their austerity message to fly they have got to make these people "other" and this is all part of that.

They aren't other, they could be any of us without 2 pay cheques and a supportive family.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Toby » 16 Aug 2017, 13:08

What surprises me is that many ethnic minorities come to Britain and other countries and they don't have the catastrophic problems with food that we do. I've just finished James Fergusson's book "Al-Britannia", in which he travels across Britain to visit muslim communities. He provides a number of examples where Muslim charity in the community often comes in the form of free food given out at Mosques and community centres, and in the majority of cases it is not other muslims taking advantage of this, it is poor white people.

I don't want to make too broad an assertion for all ethnic minorities, but I'm sure that on the whole, ethnic communities bound by religious observance usually have tighter family structures (and yes, I'm sure there are problems associated with that as well) and as such are more likely to have food "knowledge" and "culture" pass through the generations more freely. I know you'll probably all scoff at Anthony Daniels (aka Theodore Dalyrymple - notorious right-wing commentator) but in his time as a prison doctor he has noted that he met far too many people who had never sat down at a table to eat in their lives, that convenience food (ie that could be cooked in a microwave) was destroying for children the discipline of eating at set times and the accumulation of behaviour through manners, led to the loss of the kitchen as the central node of family life as someone prepared food etc etc. In virtually all cases these people were white.

I'm fully aware that many people do not have access to these things all the time. Time is a significant factor. Amongst our circle of friends with children of the same age, we are the only ones that eat pretty much every day around the table together. Many have jobs that mean that they don't get home in time or whatever to see their children, or that they decide to eat separately to their children, who are fed earlier and put to bed. Some people just can't be arsed with cooking, especially when their children are fussy or whatever, and you have to end up making separate meals for them just so that you can avoid the battleground that it can be with little ones. All these behaviours are understandable.

We live complex lives, but are also assaulted day and night by people trying to sell us things that might make our lives a little easier, convenient or whatever. At the same time though, food is, whatever you think of it, something essential and we owe it to ourselves and to future generations to celebrate it and pass down that invaluable knowledge.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 16 Aug 2017, 13:26

Toby wrote:What surprises me is that many ethnic minorities come to Britain and other countries and they don't have the catastrophic problems with food that we do. I've just finished James Fergusson's book "Al-Britannia", in which he travels across Britain to visit muslim communities. He provides a number of examples where Muslim charity in the community often comes in the form of free food given out at Mosques and community centres, and in the majority of cases it is not other muslims taking advantage of this, it is poor white people.

I don't want to make too broad an assertion for all ethnic minorities, but I'm sure that on the whole, ethnic communities bound by religious observance usually have tighter family structures (and yes, I'm sure there are problems associated with that as well) and as such are more likely to have food "knowledge" and "culture" pass through the generations more freely. I know you'll probably all scoff at Anthony Daniels (aka Theodore Dalyrymple - notorious right-wing commentator) but in his time as a prison doctor he has noted that he met far too many people who had never sat down at a table to eat in their lives, that convenience food (ie that could be cooked in a microwave) was destroying for children the discipline of eating at set times and the accumulation of behaviour through manners, led to the loss of the kitchen as the central node of family life as someone prepared food etc etc. In virtually all cases these people were white.

I'm fully aware that many people do not have access to these things all the time. Time is a significant factor. Amongst our circle of friends with children of the same age, we are the only ones that eat pretty much every day around the table together. Many have jobs that mean that they don't get home in time or whatever to see their children, or that they decide to eat separately to their children, who are fed earlier and put to bed. Some people just can't be arsed with cooking, especially when their children are fussy or whatever, and you have to end up making separate meals for them just so that you can avoid the battleground that it can be with little ones. All these behaviours are understandable.

We live complex lives, but are also assaulted day and night by people trying to sell us things that might make our lives a little easier, convenient or whatever. At the same time though, food is, whatever you think of it, something essential and we owe it to ourselves and to future generations to celebrate it and pass down that invaluable knowledge.


Fine post.

Dalrymple made the right observations, but came to the wrong conclusions; a process that people on the (far) right often are susceptible to.

He suffers from this awful faux nostalgia, and has this 'Mum knew what's best for me (and all of you, by extension)' obsession.

IMHO it's absolutely no coincidence that his pen name is so Dickensian.
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Re: Fast Food

Postby Toby » 16 Aug 2017, 13:30

Daniels isn't far right, he's a social conservative.

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Re: Fast Food

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 16 Aug 2017, 13:48

Toby wrote:Daniels isn't far right, he's a social conservative.


Hm. No, he's not a Nazi. I should have expressed myself differently.
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