Guitar appreciation thread

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Darryl Strawberry
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 01 Aug 2017, 13:54

Tactful Cactus wrote:Question: When you're playing an A-shape barre chord, do you fret and play the low E-string aswell?

Not on purpose. But I would more likely use the power chords shape and only play the middle four strings.
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Deebank » 01 Aug 2017, 13:57

It's optional.
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby kewl klive » 01 Aug 2017, 13:58

Deebank wrote:
The Savage Young Gash wrote:
Deebank wrote:And while I'm appalling you all how about the Dalek's handbag...

Image


I've got a picture of me playing Mick Jones' Roland at his Rock and Roll Library - sooo heavy and the strings were like cheese wire.


Heavy strings (and the harmonics-cancelling top brace / handbag strap) make the synthesiser's tracking much more accurate apparently. The closest I ever got was my Electro-Harmonix Micro Synthesiser which I sold on Ebay last year.


I can't remember it having a strap either. Still, belted out a decent Clash City Rockers to the delight of all present.
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Tactful Cactus » 01 Aug 2017, 14:20

K wrote:
Tactful Cactus wrote:Question: When you're playing an A-shape barre chord, do you fret and play the low E-string aswell?

Not on purpose. But I would more likely use the power chords shape and only play the middle four strings.


I like it. It deadens the chord. Noticed Hendrix and Jack White do it alot.

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Deebank » 01 Aug 2017, 14:21

The Savage Young Gash wrote:
Deebank wrote:
The Savage Young Gash wrote:
I've got a picture of me playing Mick Jones' Roland at his Rock and Roll Library - sooo heavy and the strings were like cheese wire.


Heavy strings (and the harmonics-cancelling top brace / handbag strap) make the synthesiser's tracking much more accurate apparently. The closest I ever got was my Electro-Harmonix Micro Synthesiser which I sold on Ebay last year.


I can't remember it having a strap either. Still, belted out a decent Clash City Rockers to the delight of all present.


Employing a classic Juno 6 strings pad? :?
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby kewl klive » 01 Aug 2017, 14:24

No, unamplified and notably de-tuned. A masterpiece!
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 01 Aug 2017, 19:42

Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
John Coan, with nothing else to do, wrote:I just Googled his name!

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Deebank » 01 Aug 2017, 19:55

K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Deebank » 01 Aug 2017, 19:56

The Savage Young Gash wrote:No, unamplified and notably de-tuned. A masterpiece!


Tsk, wasted opportunity!
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Tactful Cactus » 01 Aug 2017, 20:22

K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


I got a Nick Drake songbook a few years ago, some of the tunings are incredible, but so singular sounding you could only write 1 or 2 songs with them. Also like detuning to D or C std for that nice draggy tone.

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 01 Aug 2017, 20:33

Tactful Cactus wrote:
K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


I got a Nick Drake songbook a few years ago, some of the tunings are incredible, but so singular sounding you could only write 1 or 2 songs with them. Also like detuning to D or C std for that nice draggy tone.

I used a C tuning once- couldn't get used to that low, floppy sixth string.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
John Coan, with nothing else to do, wrote:I just Googled his name!

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby kewl klive » 01 Aug 2017, 22:20

Deebank wrote:
The Savage Young Gash wrote:No, unamplified and notably de-tuned. A masterpiece!


Tsk, wasted opportunity!


Oh I know, trouble is I caught sight of a red BAD cap and had to go and investigate.
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 01 Aug 2017, 22:45

Tactful Cactus wrote:
K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


I got a Nick Drake songbook a few years ago, some of the tunings are incredible, but so singular sounding you could only write 1 or 2 songs with them. Also like detuning to D or C std for that nice draggy tone.

I've just been reading about Nick Drake's CGCFCE tuning. Will give this a go this week.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
John Coan, with nothing else to do, wrote:I just Googled his name!

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 02 Aug 2017, 15:39

K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


Everything that's played on open G can also be played on open A so you don't have to relearn the fretboard.

Open A has the strings at a significantly higher tension.

See http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html and enter in the notes for each string. There's a formula from physics that I don't remember well that relates the frequency of a string to its tension. (See Mersenne's Law at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration )

Holding string length and string material constant, frequency, f, is proportional to the square root of tension, t. A better way to put this for our purpose is that f^2 = t. If you raise the pitch a whole tone, the frequency goes up by about 12 percent (details: 2^(2/12) approx 1.12). Square that and you see the tension, t, goes up by about 25 percent (1.12^2 approx 1.25).

Your ear hears this tension as a "brighter", "cleaner" and potentially louder sound with a well-defined overtone series and less non-harmonic content. To paraphrase this in simpler terms, higher tension strings can give you more volume and emphasize the note in the abstract, for example, an A. Lower tension strings in comparison can emphasize things that are unrelated to the note in the abstract, such as plectrum or finger style technique.

One problem you need to consider, however, is that the increased tension isn't good for your guitar neck. You may be going from about 50 lbs of tension to 63 lbs for light gauge strings when you go from open G to open A

If you're using heavy or medium gauge strings, be careful.



Regarding dropping the low E to D or even C, a lot of guitars don't sound good and have lots of intonation problems with this. I sometimes use this as a way of testing out acoustic guitars to see how well made they are.

Alternate tunings that are lower (and that have lower tension) such as Nick Drake's "Pink Moon" tuning mentioned above are useful because the lower tension allows the string's non-harmonic sounds unrelated to the overtone series come out. You can really hear Drake's right hand technique in his playing. (Ditto with Joni Mitchell.)

For a long time, I couldn't figure out why, but then I found out that his strings are usually at lower tension. This also worked for Skip James as well, who used a open D minor tuning, DADFAD, for "Devil Got My Woman". People were particularly mystified by his guitar sound prior to his appearance at the Newport Folk Festival in 1964 and showed how you could get it from this tuning.

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 02 Aug 2017, 15:53

take5_d_shorterer wrote:
K wrote:Anyone else enjoy open chord tunings? Obviously open G is a classic (DGDGBD) and makes you sound like Keef, but I've been using open A recently (EAEAC#E) to get a nice Delta blues sound. Even though I could just use a capo I prefer the open A tuning. T5D may have an explanation for that.


Everything that's played on open G can also be played on open A so you don't have to relearn the fretboard.

Open A has the strings at a significantly higher tension.

See http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html and enter in the notes for each string. There's a formula from physics that I don't remember well that relates the frequency of a string to its tension. (See Mersenne's Law at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration )

Holding string length and string material constant, frequency, f, is proportional to the square root of tension, t. A better way to put this for our purpose is that f^2 = t. If you raise the pitch a whole tone, the frequency goes up by about 12 percent (details: 2^(2/12) approx 1.12). Square that and you see the tension, t, goes up by about 25 percent (1.12^2 approx 1.25).

Your ear hears this tension as a "brighter", "cleaner" and potentially louder sound with a well-defined overtone series and less non-harmonic content. To paraphrase this in simpler terms, higher tension strings can give you more volume and emphasize the note in the abstract, for example, an A. Lower tension strings in comparison can emphasize things that are unrelated to the note in the abstract, such as plectrum or finger style technique.

One problem you need to consider, however, is that the increased tension isn't good for your guitar neck. You may be going from about 50 lbs of tension to 63 lbs for light gauge strings when you go from open G to open A

If you're using heavy or medium gauge strings, be careful.

That's really interesting, and I would agree. It has a bright, sharp sound I prefer to open G with a capo in the 2nd fret. My guitar is currently in open G however, as I do worry about tension. What you write just backs me up.

Thanks, Ken.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
John Coan, with nothing else to do, wrote:I just Googled his name!

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Tactful Cactus » 02 Aug 2017, 17:56

K wrote:
I've just been reading about Nick Drake's CGCFCE tuning. Will give this a go this week.


For your perusal, tunings for all Drake songs
Image

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 Aug 2017, 00:17


Nate Radley, "Wise River"

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby Darryl Strawberry » 08 Aug 2017, 09:05

take5_d_shorterer wrote:
Nate Radley, "Wise River"

Wish I could make my Tele sound like that.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 Aug 2017, 14:21

Radley knows the fretboard, but in this case a lot of it is the instrument itself. Here's another clip



The luthier who built the instrument, Chihoe Hahn, often talks about how he follows Leo Fender's designs. Having said that, Hahn's instruments don't sound like vintage instruments, and they don't sound like other Telecaster-type guitars, which are usually either "muddy" (neck pickup) or "twangy/scratchy" (bridge). Hahn's guitars are in between, which I think yields more usable sounds. Also, the attack and decay on his guitars is more even.

For a long time, I used to accept that it was an inherent property of Telecasters that the neck pickup could sound like an icepick and that it was up to the player to control that, but now I think that those sounds, which aren't that usable, are the product of design flaws and that if you build the instrument correctly, this shouldn't happen.

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Re: Guitar appreciation thread

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 09 Aug 2017, 21:41

Here's Jerry Donahue (see 7:30) doing the most subtle things you can do with right-hand technique on an electric guitar.