Grenfell Tower Fire - London

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby fueryIre » 21 Jun 2017, 07:56

Jimbo wrote:
[video]papering over poverty[video]

[video]the real truth about grenfell tower[video]

"They found 42 bodies in one room all hiding together."



And back he comes like a nasty smell that no amount of washing can ever completely eradicate, BCB's very own "sad lone individual"!

While it's doubtless good that sitting in a grubby little flat and poring over conspiracy sites may keep nobodies like you from stealing a car and driving it into a crowd of people, it's hard to see what point you are trying to make by posting rubbish like this.

I suppose we should all be grateful it's not another video showing dead and mangled bodies, but doubtless you'll be uploading those later in the week.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby The Modernist » 21 Jun 2017, 09:30

That seems a bit harsh. Why were the videos "rubbish" and why can't they be posted? Both seemed relevant to the thread to me.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Deebank » 21 Jun 2017, 09:43

The Modernist wrote:That seems a bit harsh. Why were the videos "rubbish" and why can't they be posted? Both seemed relevant to the thread to me.


I don't see what Feury's beef is with this either. Just a kneejerk anti-jimbo thing? I wonder if he actually watched the clip.

The guys in the clip are local and know people in the tower apparently and the whole point they're making is that the media need to talk to people who were there.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Belle Lettre » 21 Jun 2017, 09:49

Yes, I've seen them shared quite a bit.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Samoan » 21 Jun 2017, 10:01

This morbid, ghoulish obsession with 'numbers' is something I just don't understand.

If you look at the released photos from inside the building, and recall the way the building went up on the night, I feel it's going to amount to the findings from scrupulous forensic investigation and DNA analysis and it will take a long time.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Samoan » 21 Jun 2017, 10:09

Nick wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Nick wrote:
But they have done that throughout, it was given as 58 a couple of days ago. It's now being reported as 79 dead or missing and presumed dead, by the BBC, based on people cited as missing by other survivors, friends and relatives.


Okay. So they are updating it. So why does it keep rising? By any definition, it should be coming down, as people are found or found not to have been there.


Well that's the figure for both dead and presumed missing. So I think partly it will be rising because more bodies have been found, so the number of confirmed dead goes up. But also as days go by more people will have been reported missing, so that figure is rising too.

And then there's the fact that nobody really knows yet for sure how many people were in the tower block when it caught fire. A tower block of 120 flats isn't like an airliner or a ferry, where you have a definite passenger list.

One factor is that a number of people, both among the survivors and dead, could have been undocumented illegal immigrants, and if they are dead, their families may be understandably reluctant to come forward, because they may be in a similar predicament themselves.


From North Kensington Law Centre.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/20/grenfell-tower-some-victims-may-never-be-identified-lawyer-says
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Diamond Dog » 21 Jun 2017, 10:30

Samoan wrote:This morbid, ghoulish obsession with 'numbers' is something I just don't understand. .


There is absolutely nothing morbid or ghoulish about my questions re the numbers.
Wanting to know how many people have died as a result of (potential) negligence seems an important part of any investigation - especially if one of those 'numbers' happens to be someone you knew.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Geezee » 21 Jun 2017, 10:58

Drove past the tower a few times now in the last few days on the way to and back from my parents - it's impossible to miss on what I think is the busiest/main road into London (Westway/A40). It takes your breath away. And I guess you should expect that it would - I knew i was going to drive past it - but it really affected me more than I thought it would. I'm not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination but I found myself wanting to cross myself.

Curiously, the last time I drove past it, there was a row of taxi cars lined up on the hard shoulder where you get the closest view. I don't know if people had asked taxi drivers to go there, or if tourists had asked to stop on their way in from Heathrow or something.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby The Prof » 21 Jun 2017, 11:03

While the frontline services like the nurses, doctors and Fire Brigade are trained in how to deal with emergencies and incidents like this, I'm not sure any Council or any political colour is trained in how to deal all the rest of it.
How to deal with people that aren't injured but are homeless and shocked and also need help.
There's probably need for a nationwide task force that can be easily mobilised and sent to any area of the country in case of emergencies like this to coordinate and assist.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Deebank » 21 Jun 2017, 12:33

The Prof wrote:While the frontline services like the nurses, doctors and Fire Brigade are trained in how to deal with emergencies and incidents like this, I'm not sure any Council or any political colour is trained in how to deal all the rest of it.
How to deal with people that aren't injured but are homeless and shocked and also need help.
There's probably need for a nationwide task force that can be easily mobilised and sent to any area of the country in case of emergencies like this to coordinate and assist.


I think all councils - all big organisations - have emergency planning.
There is a complaint that there is no leadership and no one seems to know what's happening.

I'm not sure if I saw it in the Jonathan Pie vid Jimbo posted or elsewhere, but at the same time the council were installing the cladding and just before a council election they rebated £100 council tax to those that had paid the most (presumably those with the biggest houses) in the district - proudly boasting of the £274m fund they had accumulated.

Also given that the K&C constituency went Labour with a majority of 20 odd, there needs to be massive scrutiny of where the displaced people from the tower are re-located to.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby fueryIre » 21 Jun 2017, 14:27

The Modernist wrote:
That seems a bit harsh. Why were the videos "rubbish" and why can't they be posted? Both seemed relevant to the thread to me.



Sorry, but what has the Tokyo troll's posting of the latest in a long line of "if you want to know the real truth about..." clips added to the discussion that has not already been said better by other posters? It's just the usual case of his seizing on a tragedy to start rattling a stick in his conspiracy-filled bucket.

Deebank wrote:
I don't see what Feury's beef is with this either. Just a kneejerk anti-jimbo thing? I wonder if he actually watched the clip.



The presence of the words "the real truth about" in the title means no, I didn't watch the clips. As for reactions, I don't think reactions here get more 'kneejerk' than using speculations about the number of deaths to advance your own agenda while the corpses are still being counted

Deebank wrote:
The guys in the clip are local and know people in the tower apparently and the whole point they're making is that the media need to talk to people who were there.


What has the media being doing for the last week, but talk to local people?

FWIW, my 'beef' with Jimbo's insensitive postings dates back to the day when he typically unthinkingly dashed off a few lines about how much 'fun' typhoons were. This from someone who lives in Asia and knows the huge damage a typhoon can do. To add insult to injury, his post was made a couple of days after a typhoon that had rampaged its way through the Philippines had blown away the roof of my wife's family's home, seriously injuring her sister as it went.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Belle Lettre » 22 Jun 2017, 10:11

Just been reading May's Commons statement. Boggling.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Tactful Cactus » 23 Jun 2017, 20:19

Holy moly, Camden council are evacuating a similar block

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby The Write Profile » 26 Jun 2017, 06:01

BBC Panorama's documentary about the Grenfell Tower Fire is as urgent and angry as you'd expect. Putting it all together in a week with information from so many different sources is an achievement in itself, but it's also remarkably straight and forceful.

It's before my time but I've been told, he never came back from Karangahape Road.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby fueryIre » 26 Jun 2017, 09:10

The Write Profile wrote:BBC Panorama's documentary about the Grenfell Tower Fire is as urgent and angry as you'd expect. Putting it all together in a week with information from so many different sources is an achievement in itself, but it's also remarkably straight and forceful.



Saw that last Thurs or Fri, very, very insightful and considered piece
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 26 Jun 2017, 10:16

The Write Profile wrote:BBC Panorama's documentary about the Grenfell Tower Fire is as urgent and angry as you'd expect. Putting it all together in a week with information from so many different sources is an achievement in itself, but it's also remarkably straight and forceful.



Many, many thanks for sharing this, I missed out on it completely.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Diamond Dog » 26 Jun 2017, 16:14

Todays 'ironic lawyer speak' award goes to Arconic, the company that supplied the cladding on Grenfell Towers. They have stopped global sales of the product after "issues" were identified in the wake of the fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby The Write Profile » 27 Jun 2017, 03:48

fueryIre wrote:
Saw that last Thurs or Fri, very, very insightful and considered piece


I think it's exactly the sort of journalism that's needed for these fragmented times. To produce something so considered and insightful about such a combustible (no pun intended) topic is one thing, to do it against a backdrop of ever- expanding and confusing media--and to boil it all down into something coherent--is little short of remarkable. There's a lot going on in the piece, and it uses "citizen's footage" particularly well- that is to say, all the footage included serves a purpose. More than that, the director was able to cut through the self-serving bullshit of those figures in authority who should have known that such a tragedy was almost inevitable in the current regulatory environment. So you have a really good mix of human interest and public interest. I imagine the doco maker would have been utterly exhausted after putting all the material together.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 27 Jun 2017, 09:02

Diamond Dog wrote:Today's 'ironic lawyer speak' award goes to Arconic, the company that supplied the cladding on Grenfell Towers. They have stopped global sales of the product after "issues" were identified in the wake of the fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981


Incredible.

It was to be expected, but we never will get indifferent towards this type of brutality.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire - London

Postby The Great Defector » 27 Jun 2017, 14:50

So, is this the builder's fault? architects? cladding makers? Where does the liability start and stop?
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