Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Great Defector
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Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby The Great Defector » 09 May 2017, 14:22

and how much history teachers teach kids about it in that country.

I've always wondered how, for the obvious example, how German history books and teachers go about teaching kids about the holocaust. Is it brutally honest or do they just get it over and done with? The same with English history teachers about the horrors the British inflicted over the years (some of which were carried out by Irish men fighting for the British in the latter years). I'm pretty sure every country has a past that they're not proud of, Ireland is no different before anyone thinks I'm getting on my high horse here. The way we treated people, like women who had kids outside of wedlock or people with mental or physical disabilities is fucking shocking. The latest discovery of abuse being a septic tank full of kids remains being found in Galway. However none of this was told or taught to us in history class. Then there's things like the Armenian Genocide, I'm imaging that they don't really, if at all, teach that in Turkish schools, while it is in Armenia.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Moleskin » 09 May 2017, 14:28

I understand that German state education spends a decent amount of time on the Nazis and the Holocaust. The British education system, by contrast (and broadcasters making 'history' programmes) largely sweeps the crimes of Empire (and today) under the carpet - possible exception for Suez.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Jimbo » 09 May 2017, 14:31

High school history classes were sketchy. I don't recall them being overly jingoistic, however, just a lot of names and dates. College history was a mind blower where the teachers told some of the hard truths about wars and politics. I loved my college history lessons. Speaking of facing facts about one's own history, goring my ox, it seems the Nazis were fans of Zionism and for some time encouraged Jewish immigration to Palestine. Guess they thought the arabs would do their dirty work.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby PENK » 09 May 2017, 14:36

Moleskin wrote:I understand that German state education spends a decent amount of time on the Nazis and the Holocaust. The British education system, by contrast (and broadcasters making 'history' programmes) largely sweeps the crimes of Empire (and today) under the carpet - possible exception for Suez.


I studied History all the way up to university in the UK and was taught very little about the Empire. We did both World Wars extensively, quite a bit of Vietnam and Soviet Russia, and then your general history of Britain stuff like Tudors and Stuarts etc.
At college there were units on some of the political movements of the 19th century but still not much on our dark history in the colonies.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby PENK » 09 May 2017, 14:39

I work at a school in Sweden and from what I can tell the History curriculum basically involves a big list of military victories over Norway and Finland in the 17th century, a bit about Hitler, and World Cup '94.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Goat Boy » 09 May 2017, 14:46

I suspect most countries sweep certain things under the carpet. Look at Japan for crying out loud.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 09 May 2017, 14:52

Any Canadian history course I've ever taken has pretty much glossed over our disgraceful treatment of First Nations people, and has instead focused on the founding of this 'glorious' nation and all the hard work that white men have put into it. The narrative seem to be shifting, though - if not in schools, then at least in popular culture - and other voices are starting to be heard.

This year marks the '150th Anniversary of Canadian confederation' and it still seems as though there's a whole lot of whitewashing of our history.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Jimbo » 09 May 2017, 14:54

A good way to judge how certain countries view their histories is the way they name their wars. In Japan WWII is the Pacific War.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Nick » 09 May 2017, 15:35

PENK wrote:At college there were units on some of the political movements of the 19th century but still not much on our dark history in the colonies.


I took a few modules at university on colonial and post-colonial literature, and on 20th century West African writers, and we went into it in a lot of depth. The reading list was pretty comprehensive, from Kipling & Conrad to Fanon, Ngugi, Achebe, Said and Emecheta.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Nick » 09 May 2017, 15:38

Jimbo wrote: Guess they thought the arabs would do their dirty work.


They did enlist the help of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem with a view to doing just that. And if the Afrika Korps hadn't been stopped in the Western Desert, they'd have rolled up the Levant all the way to British Mandate Palestine and the Jews living there would have gone the same way as much of European Jewry.
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Re: Countries With A Horrific Past.....

Postby Count Machuki » 09 May 2017, 15:48

Not to be That Guy, but which countries DON'T have horrific pasts?
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Count Machuki » 09 May 2017, 15:49

Nick wrote:
PENK wrote:At college there were units on some of the political movements of the 19th century but still not much on our dark history in the colonies.


I took a few modules at university on colonial and post-colonial literature, and on 20th century West African writers, and we went into it in a lot of depth. The reading list was pretty comprehensive, from Kipling & Conrad to Fanon, Ngugi, Achebe, Said and Emecheta.


That's very cool. I bet you had no idea how handy that'd be.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Still Baron » 09 May 2017, 16:01

College/University was ALL ABOUT the horrific past! Befoee that, my education was a little whitewashed and simplistic, but it wasn't specifically jingoistic, and I certainly wasn't in the dark about the darker side of American and Texas history.
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Re: Countries With A Horrific Past.....

Postby Nick » 09 May 2017, 16:02

Count Machuki wrote:Not to be That Guy, but which countries DON'T have horrific pasts?


Yep.

A couple of years ago I was in Oman for work, and got chatting to a bloke who told me of his family's lengthy involvement in the Omani empire and the slave trade that was one of the commercial pillars of it. I think I knew they'd colonised parts of Africa, but I have to admit I had no idea that it had extended to part of what's now Pakistan as well (Baluchistan to be exact).

Which explains why there were contingents of Baluchis fighting in the Sultan's army during the Dhofar War during the late 60s/early 70s.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Goat Boy » 09 May 2017, 16:22

So they all have horrific pasts and they all cover it up (Germany possibly excepted). That's good to know.

Being a western liberal type I thought it was only US who behaved like cunts.
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Re: Countries With A Horrific Past.....

Postby Geezee » 09 May 2017, 16:29

Nick wrote:.

Which explains why there were contingents of Baluchis fighting in the Sultan's army during the Dhofar War during the late 60s/early 70s.


I'd always wondered about that!
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Geezee » 09 May 2017, 16:31

The one that scares me now is Russia. The rehabilitation of Stalin is an astonishing feat of imagination and creative airbrushing. Katyn Massacre? It was the Germans all along...it's a triple conspiracy!
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Geezee » 09 May 2017, 16:39

PENK wrote:I work at a school in Sweden and from what I can tell the History curriculum basically involves a big list of military victories over Norway and Finland in the 17th century, a bit about Hitler, and World Cup '94.


Don't forget Waterloo (the Eurovision win, not the battle).
The history I learnt was very focused on the wars with Denmark, and the battles down in Germany/Poland/Russia. To the extent that Sweden had an empire, our history always taught that Sweden was a relatively "benign" conquerer.
Modern history was very labour/union-focused, which I think is relatively unusual, and endless discussions on neutrality, a policy which, in the context of WWII, many consider horrific.
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby Count Machuki » 09 May 2017, 16:48

There's gotta be some ancient Swedish barbarism, though, no?
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Re: Countries With A Horiffic Past.....

Postby The Great Defector » 09 May 2017, 16:49

Count Machuki wrote:There's gotta be some ancient Swedish barbarism, though, no?



Yeah you never heard anyone saying "the Vikings, great bunch of lads". :D
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