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Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 12:08
by ORORORO
Toby wrote:Perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of Switzerland's book, where I believe they have referendums on lots of topics all the time. But then it's a small country etc etc.


See, the choice between letting the people decide and letting the government decide you might think is a clear one. Except that the people have fucked up time and time again when they've been asked what they think.

Whatever you might think of politicians in general, I think on matters like European integration, devolution of power and immigration they might be more likely to make decisions that benefit the population than you think.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 12:14
by Toby
Oh I agree with you in the main. Politicians in general understand the nuances of decisions like these far more than you or me.

It was the sheer infrequency of referendums that might have created this problem though; that with the EU referendum, the binary nature of the vote shoehorned a load of other problems into it.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 13:43
by Goat Boy
Referendums my arse. If we let the people continually decide shit it would be Mad Max within 50 years. They are not informed enough and too emotional. Direct democracy is too flawed for that sorta thing.

We need more people to vote and they need to be better informed. We also need governments that actually represent people who didn't vote for them. Should we do away with single party governments and always have coalitions?

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 14:43
by Toby
What about if you had referendums on things like "should the NHS be opened up to allow a degree of privatisation or should it remain fully public"

I don't doubt that people mostly know fuck all about these things. I don't for one thing. But allowing a degree of participation might enable those who feel disenfranchised to do so.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 14:46
by Belle Lettre
Goat Boy wrote:Referendums my arse. If we let the people continually decide shit it would be Mad Max within 50 years. They are not informed enough and too emotional. Direct democracy is too flawed for that sorta thing.

We need more people to vote and they need to be better informed. We also need governments that actually represent people who didn't vote for them. Should we do away with single party governments and always have coalitions?

I'd support that. They'll never let it happen here though.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 14:59
by Fonz
Personally, I don't agree that people should be forced to vote.
But, and this is difficult to police, I think if you don't vote you should STFU when it comes yo talking about politics.

I'm sure we've all endured folks who have an opinion on Brexit, but ask them what they voted for and you get an embarrassed " well, erm ..."

I can't vote Tory, but I won't vote for a party with Corbyn as its leader.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 10 May 2017, 23:10
by Copehead
Toby wrote:
PresMuffley wrote:The same can be said for low voter turnout as well, which is why the right here constantly attempts (and often prevails) at suppressing voting rights, disenfranchising millions.

Do you think the remain campaign would have won if more people voted or less? Impossible to say perhaps - and I'm not advocating for mandatory voting - but I'll always be in favor of more people choosing to vote. Though it would certainly help if they made an attempt at properly informing themselves beforehand.


I'm not saying people can't vote. I guess in America there are significant issues with that, but here in the UK we don't have that problem.

.


It is obvious to anyone looking at it that the Tories have been slowly but surely copying Republican voter disenfranchising techniques for years now, changing how to register to vote being the latest, this along with the gerrymandering of constituency boundaries to eliminate a perceived Labour advantage that hasn't existed in over a decade are the two most egregious tools they use to minimise the opposition vote.

Anyone who supports the Tories is either fundamentally comfortable with this anti-democracy where you try and suppress the vote or too stupid to notice it is happening.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 11 May 2017, 17:54
by northernsky
Toby wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Yep, agree- voting should be as compulsory as vaccination.


Ridiculous. The whole point of "freedom" as espoused by western liberal democracies is that we should not be shackled to participating in a political system if we do not want to.


No, that cannot be the whole point of freedom as espoused by most liberal democracies unless one has a hopelessly naive view of "freedom". A characteristic of liberal democracies is that the losers abide by the popular result, as defined by the constitution. I recognize that the UK does not have much in the way of a formal constitution; that countries can change their constitutions; and that constitutions are never perfect. Who knew?
But if, say, 50% of a voting register vote "none of the above" it provides a great deal more information than 50% not voting at all.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 15 May 2017, 13:04
by Pansy Puff
This is what you get from the natural party of government

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 35311.html
A Tory MP told a girl to "f*** off back to Scotland" when she said she'd vote for independence if a second referendum was triggered.

James Heappey's outburst came as he addressed sixth-formers at the £12,000-a-year Millfield School in Somerset.

The Conservative, who is contesting the seat of Wells, asked the children for their views as they discussed the topic of Scottish independence. When one girl said she'd vote to leave the UK, Mr Heappey, 36, replied: "Why don't you f*** off back to Scotland?"

The teenager left the meeting and complained to her father, who supports the Scottish National Party.

Mr Heappey has since sent her a written apology and insists he was joking. He told the Sunday Mirror: "I made a comment – intended only as a joke – but it was inappropriate and I am deeply sorry for any offence caused.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 15 May 2017, 13:06
by Goat Boy
Hungry Joe is boarding the train as we speak.

Expect him to rip off his head and shit down his neck shortly.

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Posted: 15 May 2017, 13:08
by PENK
K wrote:This is what you get from the natural party of government

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 35311.html
A Tory MP told a girl to "f*** off back to Scotland" when she said she'd vote for independence if a second referendum was triggered.

James Heappey's outburst came as he addressed sixth-formers at the £12,000-a-year Millfield School in Somerset.

The Conservative, who is contesting the seat of Wells, asked the children for their views as they discussed the topic of Scottish independence. When one girl said she'd vote to leave the UK, Mr Heappey, 36, replied: "Why don't you f*** off back to Scotland?"

The teenager left the meeting and complained to her father, who supports the Scottish National Party.

Mr Heappey has since sent her a written apology and insists he was joking. He told the Sunday Mirror: "I made a comment – intended only as a joke – but it was inappropriate and I am deeply sorry for any offence caused.


Yeah but Jeremy Corbyn once stood next to an Arabic man at a Billy Bragg concert.