May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Copehead
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 23 Jul 2018, 23:36

"As social justice organizations from around the world, we write this letter with growing alarm regarding the targeting of organizations that support Palestinian rights in general and the nonviolent Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, in particular. These attacks too often take the form of cynical and false accusations of anti-semitism that dangerously conflate anti-Jewish racism with opposition to Israel’s policies and system of occupation and apartheid.

We live in a frightening era, with growing numbers of authoritarian and xenophobic regimes worldwide, foremost among them the Trump administration, allying themselves with Israel’s far right government while making common cause with deeply anti-semitic and racist white supremacist groups and parties.

From our own histories we are all too aware of the dangers of increasingly fascistic and openly racist governments and political parties. The rise in anti-semitic discourse and attacks worldwide is part of that broader trend.

At times like this, it is more important than ever to distinguish between the hostility to or prejudice against Jews on the one hand and legitimate critiques of Israeli policies and system of injustice on the other.

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-Semitism, which is increasingly being adopted or considered by western governments, is worded in such a way as to be easily adopted or considered by western governments to intentionally equate legitimate criticisms of Israel and advocacy for Palestinian rights with anti-Semitism, as a means to suppress the former.

This conflation undermines both the Palestinian struggle for freedom, justice and equality and the global struggle against anti-Semitism. It also serves to shield Israel from being held accountable to universal standards of human rights and international law.

We urge our governments, municipalities, universities and other institutions to reject the IHRA definition and instead take effective measures to defeat white supremacist nationalist hate and violence and to end complicity in Israel’s human rights violations. Israel does not represent us and cannot speak for us when committing crimes against Palestinians and denying their UN-stipulated rights.

The Nobel Peace Prize-nominated, Palestinian civil society-led BDS movement for Palestinian rights has demonstrated an ongoing proven commitment to fighting anti-Semitism and all forms of racism and bigotry, consistent with its dedication to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Some of the undersigned organizations support BDS in full, others in part, and others have no formal position on BDS. We all affirm the current call for BDS as a set of tools and tactics that should not be defined as anti-semitic."
Signed by:
Academia4equality (Israel)
Boycott from Within (Israeli citizens for BDS)
Coalition of Women for Peace (Israel)
Collectif Judéo Arabe et Citoyen pour la Palestine (France)
Dayenu: New Zealand Jews Against Occupation (New Zealand)
Een Ander Joods Geluid (A Different Jewish Voice) (The Netherlands)
Een Andere Joodse Stem – Another Jewish Voice (Flanders, Belgium)
European Jews for a Just Peace
Free Speech on Israel (UK)
Gate48 – critical Israelis in the Netherlands
Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)
Independent Jewish Voices (UK)
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network
Italian Network of Jews Against the Occupation
Jewish Anti-Fascist Action Berlin (Germany)
Jewish Socialists’ Group (UK)
Jewish Voice for Democracy and Justice in Israel/Palestine (Switzerland)
Jewish Voice For Labour (UK)
Jewish Voice for Peace (USA)
Jewish Voice for Peace members in London (UK)
Jews Against Fascism (Australia)
Jews against the Occupation (Australia)
Jews for Justice for Palestinians (UK)
Jews for Palestinian Right of Return (USA)
Jews of Color & Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in Solidarity w/ Palestine (USA)
Jews Say No! (USA)
JIPF – Judar för Israelisk Palestinsk Fred (Sweden)
Jüdische Stimme für gerechten Frieden im Nahost e.V. (Germany)
Junts, Associació Catalana de Jueus i Palestins (Catalonia, Spain)
Los Otros Judíos (Argentina)
Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine (UK)
Quebrando Muros – Judeus Brasileiros Pela Descolonização da Palestina (Brazil)
Scottish Jews Against Zionism
SEDQ Network- A Global Jewish Network for Justice
South African Jewish Voices for a Just Peace (South Africa)
South African Jews for a Free Palestine (South Africa)
Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique (Saint-Gilles, Belgium)
United Jewish People’s Order (Canada)
Union Juive Française pour la Paix (France)
Workman’s Circle, Boston (USA)



Better or worse than 65 Conservative Party supporting Rabbis?

The idea that Jews speak with one voice on this is more anti-semitic, treating Jews as a monolithic group, than anything the Labour Party has ever said or done.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 24 Jul 2018, 02:08

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/07/22/labour-was-right-to-clarify-the-ihra-antisemitism-examples-just-ask-the-man-who-defined-them/


The Labour Party has received sustained criticism for not fully adopting the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism. Members of the Jewish community, the media, and Labour MPs have criticised the party’s National Executive Committee (NEC) for adjusting four examples of antisemitism in the IHRA.

However, the author of the original working definition believes the examples used by the IHRA are inadequate and open to abuse [pdf] by those wishing to censor free speech and legitimate criticisms of Israel.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 09:24

Of course the real issue here is nothing to with antisemitism. This whole farrago just gives Corbyn an excuse to continue to do nothing . Feigning weakness he ducks under the issues, and avoids confrontation on subjects he has absolutely no idea what to do about. Having the party in turmoil over an intangible mess like antisemitism is pure Corbynism. He is immobilised by the slightest conundrum for fear of being wrong. What will the children be singing then?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 09:58

:lol:

Clown time again.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Modernist » 24 Jul 2018, 10:09

Corbyn just needs to toughen it out. Losing a few zionists from the Labour Party isn't something to lose sleep over.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2018, 10:14

It exposes just how desperate the pro-Israel forces are. That they'd stoop to slander is such a shitty thing to do but maybe they think the opposition propaganda is so effective this was their best move. Worse, however, are the politicians who were bought off and are going along. Just wait and see Tommy Robinson freed soon.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 10:14

Isn't it interesting how all the closet Tories keep returning to this thread to steer the conversation away from May and the absolute fucking shambles her Government are in, to discuss and dispute the wording (in the minutest detail) of aLabour party policy etc. Despite it being pointed out that the Conservatives themselves don't possess even that.

Keep trying - but we can all see your diversionary tactics.

"Anything but May".
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 10:23

Diamond Dog wrote:Isn't it interesting how all the closet Tories keep returning to this thread to steer the conversation away from May and the absolute fucking shambles her Government are in, to discuss and dispute the wording (in the minutest detail) of aLabour party policy etc. Despite it being pointed out that the Conservatives themselves don't possess even that.

Keep trying - but we can all see your diversionary tactics.

"Anything but May".


I certainly would never consider defending the inept and hapless government and their comedic efforts to provide something no one with a brain actually wants.

However, it does need to be pointed out that Corbyn has all but disappeared, and the only time Labour get any kind of news coverage, even from their own team, is over this contrived antisemitism debate. It suits Corbyn because he is essentially anti European, and he can let things happen without compromising his own position on Europe. Which is to leave.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 10:27

"Anything but May".......
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 24 Jul 2018, 10:31

The Modernist wrote:Corbyn just needs to toughen it out. Losing a few zionists from the Labour Party isn't something to lose sleep over.


I think that's right.

You have to wonder how important the issue of anti-semitism is to the average British voter - I suspect it's something they'd like to think they were on the right side of but at the end of the day it's not a major issue for them. In the same way I think there is on the whole sympathy for the Palestinian cause and people can see the massive injustice done to the palestinians - they're just not really that motivated to do anything about it.

But 'anti-semitism' is really the only effective viable stick the right has to beat Corbyn's Labour so they will keep at it.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 11:23

Diamond Dog wrote:"Anything but May".......


Rees Mogg?

Johnson?

Farage?

Be careful what you wish for.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 11:27

Deebank wrote:
The Modernist wrote:Corbyn just needs to toughen it out. Losing a few zionists from the Labour Party isn't something to lose sleep over.


I think that's right.

You have to wonder how important the issue of anti-semitism is to the average British voter - I suspect it's something they'd like to think they were on the right side of but at the end of the day it's not a major issue for them. In the same way I think there is on the whole sympathy for the Palestinian cause and people can see the massive injustice done to the palestinians - they're just not really that motivated to do anything about it.

But 'anti-semitism' is really the only effective viable stick the right has to beat Corbyn's Labour so they will keep at it.


Except it isn't the right who are beating them with it, is it. They are beating themselves. They are beating themselves in some weird fetishistic ceremony of masochism. So they don't have to do anything about what is going on in the real world. Inept ballbags that they are.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 11:35

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:"Anything but May".......


Rees Mogg?

Johnson?

Farage?

Be careful what you wish for.



"Anything but May" is a reference to how you and your clone closet Tories want to discuss "Anything but May" because it's just too fucking embarrassing, not my own personal choice of Tory leader.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 11:41

Diamond Dog wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:"Anything but May".......


Rees Mogg?

Johnson?

Farage?

Be careful what you wish for.



"Antything but May" is a reference to how you and your clone closet Tories want to discuss "Anything but May" because it's just too fucking embarrassing, not my own personal choice of Tory leader.


I'll leave you to your own circle jerk of antisemitism them. Obviously far important than running the country. From my point of view May is clearly incompetent. Luckily for her, we have an opposition that make her look like Winston fucking Churchill.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 11:43

Off we go again. Why don;t you start a Corbyn thread? Because you -and others- couldn't then jump on here and divert away from May and her bunch of incompetent imbeciles, that's why.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 12:02

Diamond Dog wrote:Off we go again. Why don;t you start a Corbyn thread? Because you -and others- couldn't then jump on here and divert away from May and her bunch of incompetent imbeciles, that's why.


Because it is all the same debate. The opposition are supposed to hold the government to account. The reality is that Copehead and his coalition of half wits and drones do a better job of doing that on a bulletin board with four active members , than Corbyn and his semi literate rag tag yobbo's do in parliament. If they even bother going to parliament any more for all the good they do. A government can only be held to account by a competent and active opposition. Theresa May has the luxury of not having to face up to this. And we are all worse off for that.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 12:17

So in your view the Tories electing May, holding a Brexit Referendum and acting on it, and welcoming Trump into the country and sucking up to him is actually the Labour Party's fault, not the Tories?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously, Michael.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 12:26

Diamond Dog wrote:So in your view the Tories electing May, holding a Brexit Referendum and acting on it, and welcoming Trump into the country and sucking up to him is actually the Labour Party's fault, not the Tories?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously, Michael.


What on earth are you on about?

The point is they haven't been any value as an opposition. Which means the tories just blunder on. And on. Whilst Labour have slapping fights in public. You have a very slender grasp on debate , don't you?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Jul 2018, 13:10

You are saying all the decisions the Tories have made is because Labour don't provide an opposition.

I'm sorry - that is just plain wrong.

That they may not held accountable for those decisions (allegedly) may be Labour's fault. But Labour did not force the Tories to make those decisions in the first place, did they - that's entirely down your beloved Conservative Party and its MP's. And Prime Minister.

Try and shift the blame as much as you like - the Tories have been in Govt for nearly a decade now - when do they become responsible for the fuck up's under their watch?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 24 Jul 2018, 13:18

Diamond Dog wrote:You are saying all the decisions the Tories have made is because Labour don't provide an opposition.

I'm sorry - that is just plain wrong.

That they may not held accountable for those decisions (allegedly) may be Labour's fault. But Labour did not force the Tories to make those decisions in the first place, did they - that's entirely down your beloved Conservative Party and its MP's. And Prime Minister.

Try and shift the blame as much as you like - the Tories have been in Govt for nearly a decade now - when do they become responsible for the fuck up's under their watch?


I think they are entirely responsible for the mess we are in. But since no one is taking them to account, they plough on regardless, and without any impediment to their progress.

Corbyn did not campaign for remain , did he. Even now he is lukewarm to the idea of staying in Europe. We have a minority government who somehow still manage to push through very nearly every piece of legislation they want to. If Corbyn cannot make any impression on them whilst they are at their weakest, how will he do when his numbers are drastically reduced after the next election? He has the opportunity to impact what happens, but he is far more interested in his cult of personality, and having children chanting his name
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