May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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PENK
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby PENK » 31 Oct 2018, 06:57

The biggest argument for a second referendum is not that voter turnout was low but that the Brexiteers were found to have broken several laws during their campaign, (as well as basing their argument on infeasible promises - I firmly believe that in any election, the victors should be held to their campaign and manifesto pledges).
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Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby the masked man » 31 Oct 2018, 07:17

PENK wrote:The biggest argument for a second referendum is not that voter turnout was low but that the Brexiteers were found to have broken several laws during their campaign, (as well as basing their argument on infeasible promises - I firmly believe that in any election, the victors should be held to their campaign and manifesto pledges).


I agree. By agreeing to implement the Brexiteers' demands, the UK government is rewarding criminality. Will of the people, my arse.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Modernist » 31 Oct 2018, 08:05

Yes to both the above posts.
The people were lied to, they deserve a right of reply.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 31 Oct 2018, 08:30

Following the budget one Brexiteer has calculated that the £350m extra per week will now be spent on the NHS thus validating the bus claim/promise.

The fact the claim has gained zero traction in the media tells you all you need to know - probably on the front page of the Express though.

My point is though that you will never convince the other side that anyone was lied to.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 31 Oct 2018, 13:34

If the NHS is getting £350 million extra a week then we can call off Brexit.
Brilliant.. The money was there all the time.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 31 Oct 2018, 17:23

PENK wrote:The biggest argument for a second referendum is not that voter turnout was low but that the Brexiteers were found to have broken several laws during their campaign, (as well as basing their argument on infeasible promises - I firmly believe that in any election, the victors should be held to their campaign and manifesto pledges).


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 31 Oct 2018, 17:25

“Infeasible promises”. Wasn’t that what Labour hq nicknamed their last manifesto?
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby PENK » 31 Oct 2018, 19:02

yomptepi wrote:
PENK wrote:The biggest argument for a second referendum is not that voter turnout was low but that the Brexiteers were found to have broken several laws during their campaign, (as well as basing their argument on infeasible promises - I firmly believe that in any election, the victors should be held to their campaign and manifesto pledges).


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


By which I take it you mean you think it’s OK to break the law in an electoral campaign.
GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby PENK » 31 Oct 2018, 19:03

Goat Boy wrote:“Infeasible promises”. Wasn’t that what Labour hq nicknamed their last manifesto?


So what? I don’t recall the part of the post where I said ”apart from Labour”.
GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 31 Oct 2018, 19:06

PENK wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:“Infeasible promises”. Wasn’t that what Labour hq nicknamed their last manifesto?


So what? I don’t recall the part of the post where I said ”apart from Labour”.


Infeasible promises is not a reason to have another referendum. That is pathetic
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby PENK » 31 Oct 2018, 19:09

Goat Boy wrote:
PENK wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:“Infeasible promises”. Wasn’t that what Labour hq nicknamed their last manifesto?


So what? I don’t recall the part of the post where I said ”apart from Labour”.


Infeasible promises is not a reason to have another referendum. That is pathetic


I’d say it’s the apathetic acceptance of it that’s pathetic. It shoyldn’t be allowed. And no it’s not specific to Brexit, it goes on every time. We get the politics we deserve I guess.

My point was more that the illegal campaign was a better reason for a second referendum.
GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 31 Oct 2018, 19:19

If Labour won with their manifesto would people hold them to account in the same way? Would you demand another election because their one trillion manifesto was full of infeasible promises therefore let's do it all again. Would you fuck, let's be honest. It's all about whose side wins ultimately and the justification for the bullshit. If Remain had told more whoppers and won the end would be seen as justifying those means even if some might admit to the lie.

Don't get me wrong, the NHS lie sticks in the craw, of course it does and there is a larger point about trying to make such campaigns/manifesto's more honest and I would agree but I don't think it's a particularly persuasive argument here for another referendum.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby PENK » 31 Oct 2018, 21:21

Goat Boy wrote:If Labour won with their manifesto would people hold them to account in the same way?


Possibly - hopefully, indeed - if they didn't stick to their script. But ultimately the issue is that there is absolutely no system in place to hold politicians responsible for the bollocks that comes out of their gobs.

Don't get me wrong, the NHS lie sticks in the craw, of course it does


It is a particularly big whopper.
GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 31 Oct 2018, 23:23

yomptepi wrote:
PENK wrote:The biggest argument for a second referendum is not that voter turnout was low but that the Brexiteers were found to have broken several laws during their campaign, (as well as basing their argument on infeasible promises - I firmly believe that in any election, the victors should be held to their campaign and manifesto pledges).


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ridiculous.

By which I mean that the idea of a party leader even looking at their manifesto after they have been elected is utterly laughable. These are politicians for fucks sake. The most dishonest. self interested , power hungry cunts who ever infested society. The idea that they could be "held to their campaign and manifesto pledges" is so absurd it hurts. Have you ever read the news?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 31 Oct 2018, 23:25

Goat Boy wrote:If Labour won with their manifesto would people hold them to account in the same way? Would you demand another election because their one trillion manifesto was full of infeasible promises therefore let's do it all again. Would you fuck, let's be honest. It's all about whose side wins ultimately and the justification for the bullshit. If Remain had told more whoppers and won the end would be seen as justifying those means even if some might admit to the lie.

Don't get me wrong, the NHS lie sticks in the craw, of course it does and there is a larger point about trying to make such campaigns/manifesto's more honest and I would agree but I don't think it's a particularly persuasive argument here for another referendum.


I always remember the sacred Tony's manifesto promise not to introduce tuition fees.
It was the first piece of legislation he passed.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 01 Nov 2018, 09:37

Doug nails it on the head. If Remain had won and had later been found to have broke the law, then I really don’t think anyone here would be calling for a second referendum because you’d have the result you wanted and would be willing to obfuscate a tiny annoying bit of procedural law and brush it under the carpet.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 01 Nov 2018, 09:43

Further more, it is clear that the electoral commission’s findings were not enough to call for a second referendum. They spent too much money and didn’t declare some receipts. They were fined as per the rules of the commission. All parties have fallen foul of the commission at some point - there is no way that this really cancels out the result.

We live in a democracy. A democracy imposes the will of the people on the political elite to govern them. And in this case, of those who decided to participate in the referendum, the UK electorate chose to leave the EU.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 01 Nov 2018, 09:46

Toby wrote:Doug nails it on the head. If Remain had won and had later been found to have broke the law, then I really don’t think anyone here would be calling for a second referendum


anyone HERE, yeah

Toby wrote:because you’d have the result you wanted


again, 'you' meaning people here

Toby wrote:a tiny annoying bit of procedural law


not




not sure what either of you are saying here. If people are lied to then their vote is invalid
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 01 Nov 2018, 09:51

On the other hand, another vote once we know the terms under which we are exiting seems wholly democratic.
No one is stopping anyone from voting to leave again. I don' see the problem. Even Farage has flirted with the idea.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 01 Nov 2018, 09:56

space. invadere wrote:
Toby wrote:Doug nails it on the head. If Remain had won and had later been found to have broke the law, then I really don’t think anyone here would be calling for a second referendum


anyone HERE, yeah

Toby wrote:because you’d have the result you wanted


again, 'you' meaning people here

Toby wrote:a tiny annoying bit of procedural law


not




not sure what either of you are saying here. If people are lied to then their vote is invalid


It's not black and white though. Some Brexiters stand by all the claims - others say they have been mis-quoted or taken out of context - '£350m to the NHS is just an example of what we could do with the money, not any kind of commitment' - that sort of thing.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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