May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 30 Oct 2018, 13:24

It’s funny how you tories suddenly trust opinion polls when they back your side.

Personally I’d be a bit more cautious when by far the largest group on the graph is the ‘don’t know’ slice, the last general election went well for your lot after all...
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Oct 2018, 13:26

I've never voted Tory in my life.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 30 Oct 2018, 13:37

Deebank wrote:It’s funny how you tories suddenly trust opinion polls when they back your side.

Personally I’d be a bit more cautious when by far the largest group on the graph is the ‘don’t know’ slice, the last general election went well for your lot after all...



Oh I agree fully. And being conservative doesn't automatically equal voting Tory btw.

Labour did extremely well last time and in a general election Corbyn would come into his own. However I would say that the Labour position on Brexit has solidified to a point where they are essentially behind it now. And that could seriously affect their voting demographic. The timing of the election would be important. If a deal is agreed with the EU then I think an election will be called.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Oct 2018, 14:01

The fact that so many are still "don't know" considering the shambles that May has presided over and her obviously weakened status within her own party would concern me a little bit if I was a Corbyn supporter frankly.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 30 Oct 2018, 14:14



It is measure of the paucity of this wretched and pathetic Labour opposition that despite having possibly the worst tory government in living memory, they still cannot achieve a lead in the polls. Which is quite frankly laughable. Even brain dead Edd was doing better than JC and his semi literate band of half wits. Still, they are popular with the children I understand.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 14:16

Toby wrote:However I would say that the Labour position on Brexit has solidified to a point where they are essentially behind it now.


Not according to Theresa May.

"Jeremy Corbyn couldn’t rule out a second referendum and today Labour have decided to keep the door open to holding another vote.
This approach would take Britain back to square one – betraying all those who voted in the 2016 EU referendum."


Image

It wouldn't betray ALL those who voted in the 2016 referendum.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 30 Oct 2018, 14:22

It does beg the question why bother though. We have had a vote. We have a result. Surely at some point all this will end. If we have another referendum, will that mean another year of campaigning, followed by another two of negotiations? And what of countries which are precariously balanced on the edge? Greece and Italy. What if they crash out? Surely it is best to just do what has to be done, and get on with everything . Brexit is destroying this country because everything else is being neglected. I just want it to be over, once and for all. I am past caring whether we stay or leave.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 14:37

It won't end. It's like unscrambling an egg. There's years and years of negotiations ahead whilst everyone except the very wealthy will be worse off.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 30 Oct 2018, 15:55

A second referendum would be ill-advised, just as calling it the people's vote was. That was incredibly arrogant, particularly as it essentially deigns to ignore the original referendum result. If a decision on the option to leave the EU had been taken by Parliament without the consent of the people, then protesting against it would be totally understandable, just as with the Iraq war and the ban on bloodsports. But we had a referendum where the decision was put to the people directly.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 16:18

Apart from UKIP and a few right wingers in the Tory party nobody wanted a referendum. As we know it was Cameron's great idea to prevent splits in the Tory Party to gain him a few extra months as PM.
As it stands, withdrawing Article 50 in the national interest will be the least worst option - but I can't see that happening.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 30 Oct 2018, 16:45

The Prof wrote:Apart from UKIP and a few right wingers in the Tory party nobody wanted a referendum. As we know it was Cameron's great idea to prevent splits in the Tory Party to gain him a few extra months as PM.
As it stands, withdrawing Article 50 in the national interest will be the least worst option - but I can't see that happening.


That post is so hopelessly partisan , it is hardly worth responding to. Good grief.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 30 Oct 2018, 17:14

yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:Apart from UKIP and a few right wingers in the Tory party nobody wanted a referendum. As we know it was Cameron's great idea to prevent splits in the Tory Party to gain him a few extra months as PM.
As it stands, withdrawing Article 50 in the national interest will be the least worst option - but I can't see that happening.


That post is so hopelessly partisan , it is hardly worth responding to. Good grief.


It’s pretty much all on the money isn’t it?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 30 Oct 2018, 18:23

A referendum no-one wanted which happened to have the biggest voter turn out in recent memory.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 30 Oct 2018, 18:39

Toby wrote:A referendum no-one wanted which happened to have the biggest voter turn out in recent memory.


Apparently, but at the 2010 election, Europe was way down (tenth IIRC) the list of issues people thought important.
And that seems plausible to me. Of course idiots get all het up when Boris tells them Europe wants to make their bananas straight or ban the use of sawdust in the Great British Banger etc...

When it's put centre stage it takes on more importance.
Important enough for one Brexit nutter to kill Jo Cox over.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 18:51

There is a difference between not wanting it and not partaking in it.
I'd suggest that just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum.
30 million people didn't vote for Brexit.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 30 Oct 2018, 19:00

The Prof wrote:There is a difference between not wanting it and not partaking in it.
I'd suggest that just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum.
30 million people didn't vote for Brexit.


That's absurd John. That's like saying 25 million people didn't vote for the Tories so they shouldn't be in power. A ridiculous argument.

People had the option to vote. Many didn't exercise their right to make a choice, but the political process shouldn't be abandoned because those people chose not to participate.

I'm afraid that left-leaning liberals often show their true colours in situations like this

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 30 Oct 2018, 19:07

The Prof wrote:There is a difference between not wanting it and not partaking in it.
I'd suggest that just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum.
30 million people didn't vote for Brexit.


72.2% of the voting age population voted.

Any way you want to twist it, ( and between you and Deebank , you are doing some pretty fancy twisting), that is a very strong turnout. If the people who had been most affected by Brexit had bothered to vote, rather than just sing songs at their beloved leader, we might have got a better result, but between youth voter apathy, and Corbyn's disinterest, it was left for the result to be decided by the blue rinse brigade, and the little Englanders. I think you are perfectly correct when you say that "just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum." but it doesn't matter anymore. The vote was had, the opportunity was squandered, and now the price has to be paid. And it will be paid. All signs are that Labour are going to support the deal when it does finally happen. ( and it will).

I understand your frustration, especially as like you I have children who should have had the opportunity to really grasp the benefits of the Eu for the first time. But a series of unlikely events, and a catelogue of disastrous decisions mean that opportunity has gone. And now we have to live with it. I wonder if a lesson has been learned. Actually, I don't. I know nothing has been learned, and the stupidity will continue as long as we have the worst generation of politicians leading the country, and the stupidest generation of voters ever to be let near a ballot box. But like the cunt Weller said. The public gets what the public wants. I hope they choke on it.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 19:09

Toby wrote:
The Prof wrote:There is a difference between not wanting it and not partaking in it.
I'd suggest that just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum.
30 million people didn't vote for Brexit.


That's absurd John. That's like saying 25 million people didn't vote for the Tories so they shouldn't be in power. A ridiculous argument.

People had the option to vote. Many didn't exercise their right to make a choice, but the political process shouldn't be abandoned because those people chose not to participate.

I'm afraid that left-leaning liberals often show their true colours in situations like this


Hardly.

I was making the point that because lots of people voted doesn't mean that wanted to. They were forced into it.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 30 Oct 2018, 19:12

The Prof wrote:
Toby wrote:
The Prof wrote:There is a difference between not wanting it and not partaking in it.
I'd suggest that just about everybody that voted remain didn't want the referendum.
30 million people didn't vote for Brexit.


That's absurd John. That's like saying 25 million people didn't vote for the Tories so they shouldn't be in power. A ridiculous argument.

People had the option to vote. Many didn't exercise their right to make a choice, but the political process shouldn't be abandoned because those people chose not to participate.

I'm afraid that left-leaning liberals often show their true colours in situations like this


Hardly.

I was making the point that because lots of people voted doesn't mean that wanted to. They were forced into it.


maybe people should have been forced into it. They could have had compulsory voting at universities and old peoples homes.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby The Prof » 30 Oct 2018, 19:44

There’s lots of things that *could* have been done. A supermajority could probably have been employed requiring a ⅔ majority to change the status quo.
And nobody is going to get what they think they've voted for because it’s undeliverable.