May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 28 Dec 2017, 22:41

This article shows the absolute inability to think in supposedly highly educated politicians:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/28/tory-mp-condemns-universal-basic-income-on-moral-grounds

I mean pick the logic out of this:

Mankind is hard-wired to work. We gain satisfaction from it. It gives us a sense of identity, purpose and belonging … we should not be trying to create a world in which most people do not feel the need to work.”


This twat can contradict his is argument in the same sentence without even realizing it.

Plus the basic premise isn't even correct from a sociological or biological viewpoint. For most of mankind's history we were hunter gatherers who worked just enough to keep ourselves fed like any other animal.

And as for the moral problem for giving money to people who have done nothing to earn it does his ability to think allow him to connect the direct line in that chain of thought to inherited wealth, like the kind he has benefited from? Of course it fucking doesn't, his thinking stops at prole money he probably hasn't got the intellect or imagination to conceive of his wealth as unearned.

How can this thick cunt have a moral problem with making sure that everyone has food to eat and decent shelter, but no moral problem with tens of thousands of people living on the streets millions needing food banks and cuts in basic payments to disabled people?

The right's politics is poisonous it morally corrupts people and makes them see their fellow human beings as problems and a potential threat to their own wealth.

Some form of Universal Basic Income is coming unless we are willing to see our fellow citizens living in absolute poverty in ever greater numbers, there will come a point where even the morally stunted morons who read the Sun and the Daily Mail will realize that people like Boles lump them in with the destitute and will have no problem seeing them go the same way if it protects their unearned wealth.


There was some comedy gold in the article though

Boles is widely viewed by his colleagues as one of the more thoughtful backbenchers in a party hungry for a convincing riposte to Corbyn’s radical socialism.
:lol:

If I can pick holes in his thesis I think he has problems, it wouldn't pass muster as an A level essay surely.


He does make a convincing case that Marx was correct though, although inadvertently I'd imagine:

Boles warned that taxing firms that benefit from automation would simply discourage them from investing. “The only sure result of a robot tax would be lower investment, lower productivity and lower wages.”


Or as Marx put it: ownership of the means of production coming into conflict with the productive possibilities

We can only have technological advances in the means of production if it suits and enriches the owners of capital

When robots and computers remove even more productive jobs from economy you wonder who Boles thinks is going to buy the goods produced? Perhaops he envisages an economy where we all deliver parcels to each other for minimum wage or less, he appears to be thick enough.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 01:13

I am still baffled by the fact that when I was at school I was told we were heading into an age of leisure, and that most people would only have to work 20 hours a week. Most people i know , myself included are lucky if we only work 60 hours a week. What went wrong? And why is it that despite all the automation , and the digitalisation of information, that we have more people working in this country than ever before, and for less money? The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike). It makes me very suspicious of these predictions that so many jobs will be lost. If it was the case, surely most of them would have gone already?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 04:07

yomptepi wrote:I am still baffled by the fact that when I was at school I was told we were heading into an age of leisure, and that most people would only have to work 20 hours a week. Most people i know , myself included are lucky if we only work 60 hours a week. What went wrong? And why is it that despite all the automation , and the digitalisation of information, that we have more people working in this country than ever before, and for less money? The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike). It makes me very suspicious of these predictions that so many jobs will be lost. If it was the case, surely most of them would have gone already?


Probably because we cannot have a sensible discussion about productive and unproductive work in the country without a twat like that making some specious argument about man's natural state as a serf like worker.

What you were told would happen largely happened as manufacturing became automated and comparatively well paid working class jobs were shed at a frightening rate, people moved into service industries and productivity took a nose dive which continues, to the bafflement of seemingly intelligent people, to this day. Instead of working productively 20 hours a week people work far longer doing less to earn the same.

But when deliveries can be made by driverless vans, when lorries are driverless, when call centers become more automated when everybody just cut each others hair what then? Who then buys the products that the computers and robots are making?

I think it is a nettle that is going to have to be grasped in the next generation or so.

It seems clear to me that rather than make people scrabble around for useless, unproductive jobs that pay them barely enough to survive ( so little that 23 million pay no income tax as they don't earn enough money ) so then they have to eke out extra payments from the state for children, rent, disability etc etc etc it makes far more sense to pay everyone from Richard Branson downwards ( the money will be clawed back from the rich by taxation anyway and it has long been known that benefits for the poor are poor benefits ) enough money so they can house and feed themselves and their family and then let them decide what to do? The vast majority will work as they have always done to top up this money and have a better life, some will use the money to pursue creative endeavours and some of those will get very rich and pay lots of tax back.

A few will take the money and live a life of worthless indolence, but enough about the Royal family, but people do that anyway and generally use petty crime to do it.

But it seems to me we are coming to a branch in the road and the other branch is far far nastier.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 06:30

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/29/uk-to-sink-to-the-bottom-of-oecd-wage-growth-index-in-2018

More evidence of the economic and political competence of the Conservative party that The Bear is so enamored of:


Britain is set to have the worst wage growth of any wealthy nation next year, ranking behind Italy, Greece and Hungary, according to analysis by the TUC.

The UK is forecast to come bottom from 32 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development wealthy nations for wage performance in 2018, according to the study of OECD figures by the unions’ umbrella group.

British workers are expected to see their earnings decrease by 0.7% in 2018 when taking account of inflation, which has surged in the past year as a result of the pound’s weakness since the EU referendum, pushing up the cost of importing food and fuel.

Only two other OECD nations – Spain and Italy – are expected to record negative wage growth, although both still outperform the UK.


It used to be mugs voted Tory because even if they were nasty they made you richer, apparently, although my rags to riches story happened nearly entirely under a Labour Government.

Now unless you are a millionaire they are nasty and they are making you poorer.

But morons will still vote Tory because Corbyn is like Venezuela init.

I think Michael Gove could literally come round to Mike's house and stick an enormous arm sized black dildo up his arse, steal his records and burn his guitars in front of his weeping, pain wracked face and he would still believe things would be worse under Labour.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Dec 2017, 08:10

yomptepi wrote: The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike).


Change the fucking record. You've gone beyond parody and are now coming over as viciously vindictive and particularly ill informed .
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:03

Diamond Dog wrote:
yomptepi wrote: The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike).


Change the fucking record. You've gone beyond parody and are now coming over as viciously vindictive and particularly ill informed .


of course.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Dec 2017, 10:10

Most of us work at least 37 - count em! - hours a week!

Don’t be jealous, Yomp.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:11

Goat Boy wrote:Most of us work at least 37 - count em! - hours a week!

.


when you go in.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:14

Copehead wrote:
But when deliveries can be made by driverless vans, when lorries are driverless, when call centers become more automated when everybody just cut each others hair what then? Who then buys the products that the computers and robots are making?

.


Do you really think that is going to happen? Surely as soon as there is a fatal accident involving a member of the public, the whole thing with collapse into a nightmare of litigation. I cannot see it ever working.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Dec 2017, 10:14

I do love my sick days and 7 weeks paid holidays!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:18

Copehead wrote:[

I think Michael Gove could literally come round to Mike's house and stick an enormous arm sized black dildo up his arse, steal his records and burn his guitars in front of his weeping, pain wracked face and he would still believe things would be worse under Labour.


Certainly worse under Corbyn, but he won't be around forever...
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 10:20

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:[

I think Michael Gove could literally come round to Mike's house and stick an enormous arm sized black dildo up his arse, steal his records and burn his guitars in front of his weeping, pain wracked face and he would still believe things would be worse under Labour.


Certainly worse under Corbyn, but he won't be around forever...


Is their any Labour politician who is suitably Blairish for you without actually being Blair? Keir Starmer?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Butch Manly » 29 Dec 2017, 10:21

yomptepi wrote:I am still baffled by the fact that when I was at school I was told we were heading into an age of leisure, and that most people would only have to work 20 hours a week. Most people i know , myself included are lucky if we only work 60 hours a week. What went wrong?


Neo-liberalism.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 10:25

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
But when deliveries can be made by driverless vans, when lorries are driverless, when call centers become more automated when everybody just cut each others hair what then? Who then buys the products that the computers and robots are making?

.


Do you really think that is going to happen? Surely as soon as there is a fatal accident involving a member of the public, the whole thing with collapse into a nightmare of litigation. I cannot see it ever working.


They said the same about the Iron Horse Mike.

It doesn't alter the fact that for capitalism to work it needs enough people with money to buy its products, Henry Ford understood this so despite being a fascist wanker he paid his workers enough to buy the cars they made.

Looks like the current masters of the universe may have forgotten that they need consumers or perhaps they all think they can pay their own workers fuck all, pay no taxes and let others pick up the slack. Parasites is the correct word for people like that. Them and the rent seekers will do more to damage capitalism than Stalin ever managed.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 10:27

Goat Boy wrote:Most of us work at least 37 - count em! - hours a week!

Don’t be jealous, Yomp.


I work about 80 hours a week you are all fucking lightweights, I only bow to junior doctors in the 80s.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:29

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:[

I think Michael Gove could literally come round to Mike's house and stick an enormous arm sized black dildo up his arse, steal his records and burn his guitars in front of his weeping, pain wracked face and he would still believe things would be worse under Labour.


Certainly worse under Corbyn, but he won't be around forever...


Is their any Labour politician who is suitably Blairish for you without actually being Blair? Keir Starmer?


Not at all. If Corbyn had a brain, and employed talented people , rather than ex mistresses and close friends, then he might be of some use. But as he insists on employing possibly the dumbest people available, I cannot ever see him being able to anything. You really could not make up that front bench. There is more political nouse in the front four at Doncaster Rovers.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:30

Copehead wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Most of us work at least 37 - count em! - hours a week!

Don’t be jealous, Yomp.


I work about 80 hours a week you are all fucking lightweights, I only bow to junior doctors in the 80s.


but only for six months a year.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Samoan » 29 Dec 2017, 10:47

Miliband, The Younger, should have stayed in post after the outcome of the 2015 general election and faced the music like a person with a backbone .
He also lost his Brother and I sincerely hope for them both , not irretrievably but it's a very sad state of family affairs.

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Dec 2017, 10:48

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Certainly worse under Corbyn, but he won't be around forever...


Is their any Labour politician who is suitably Blairish for you without actually being Blair? Keir Starmer?


Not at all. If Corbyn had a brain, and employed talented people , rather than ex mistresses and close friends, then he might be of some use. But as he insists on employing possibly the dumbest people available, I cannot ever see him being able to anything. You really could not make up that front bench. There is more political nouse in the front four at Doncaster Rovers.


Umm... how would they compare with the present Cabinet?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 10:50

I think it a measure of how desperately poor they are that the present cabinet are still in post,

Don't you?
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