Insouciant Western People wrote:
Copehead wrote:Hitler did support Zionism, the building of a Jewish state in the Middle east, for his own reasons.
Obviously he still detested Jews but he definitely supported Zionism in the 30s as a way of removing Jews from Europe.
What word would you use other than "support"? He actively looked into giving material and monetary support to Jewish "terrorists" in their battle with Palestinians and the British colonialists and he supported the removal of Jews from Europe to Palestine.
That looks like supporting Zionism to me.
Zionism was and is a movement for the liberation and self-determination of the Jewish people, intended to save them from the millenia of persecution that they've suffered.
No it isn't.
It is nationalist political ideology that demands a monoethnic Jewish state in Palestine.
A gigantically murderous anti-Semite having an aim (the removal of the Jews from Europe) that happened to tangentially coincide with the aim of Zionism to establish a Jewish state in their ancient homeland is not the same as him 'supporting' Zionism.
I think you'll find that it is an exact dictionary definition of supporting; he supported Zionism militarily, monetarily and as a desirable outcome.
Doesn't change the fact that he was a genocidal anti-semite, just that his desires and the desires of Zionists coincided for a brief period in the mid 30s.
Hitler is probably the most terrible, and certainly the most genocidally murderous enemy the Jews have ever faced.
I think the Catholic Church may be disappointed with their relegation to second there, they may not have done as much evil as quickly as Hitler but they were at it far longer.
Saying that Hitler supported Zionism is like telling an Irishman that Oliver Cromwell supported Irish republicanism. As the very least it is an awful and offensive use of words.
No it isn't, Hitler did support Zionism briefly in the 30s, I doubt Cromwell could even conceive of Irish Republicanism.
That's why so many people were upset by what he said - that and the fact that Livingstone has form for baiting Jews, so there was a strong suspicion that he said it in the full knowledge of what he was doing in order to wind them up.
I can't see the problem with making people a bit upset with some home truths about the birth of Zionism and the fact that it is an apartheid, nationalist ideology.
Those are simple facts that many Jews recognise.
I don't think winding up Zionists is anti-semitic, it is anti-zionist and anti-nationalist but as zionist=/=Jew then it isn't anti-semitic.