May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Jeemo
Posts: 20855
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 23:17
Location: ????

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Jeemo » 02 Apr 2018, 20:17

General rule of thumb is that if Melaine Philips is for something then I'm not.
Image So Long Kid, Take A Bow.

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 23345
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 02 Apr 2018, 20:39

Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.


The paper that supported the blackshirts anti-Semitic?

What do you think?
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35779
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 02 Apr 2018, 20:51

Diamond Dog wrote:Always you.

I've never once heard you even give the remotest nod to centre left policies - you're a died-in-the-wool Tory who thinks you're not. For whatever reason.

I seriously thought you were joking but clearly not. Your continued insistence on perpetuating this hysterical 'anti-semite' witch hunt, instigated by the gutter right wing press, is appalling. Because you actually believe it. There again, you've believed every bit of every scabberous trope put out by the likes of the Mail and other right wing goons - reiterating them as fact and evidence- that we shouldn't be so surprised.

I expected better of you.


here we are. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43620717

"
Momentum, the Labour movement backing Jeremy Corbyn, has said that anti-Semitism in the party is more widespread than it had understood.

It said in a statement: "Accusations of anti-Semitism should not and cannot be dismissed simply as right-wing smears."

It acknowledged the "upset and despair" of the Jewish community and the party's "failure" to deal with anti-Semitism.

The move came as the Labour leader promised "watertight" investigations into allegations of anti-Semitism."

Must all be a right wing conspiracy then, right Pete?
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6518
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Darkness_Fish » 02 Apr 2018, 20:53

Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.

Is it really worth arguing the toss over which brand of bigotry The Mail is most indebted to? Ooh, they're ok with Jews, it's just the gays and muslims they hate. We can all agree it's a vile rag, surely, regardless of political standpoint.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23630
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 02 Apr 2018, 20:53

Deebank wrote:
Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.


The paper that supported the blackshirts anti-Semitic?

What do you think?


That was in 1936.

The Mail employs a number of Jewish journalists. Do you really think that if the paper was anti-Semitic that they would work there?

You are floundering on quicksand.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23630
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 02 Apr 2018, 20:54

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.

Is it really worth arguing the toss over which brand of bigotry The Mail is most indebted to? Ooh, they're ok with Jews, it's just the gays and muslims they hate. We can all agree it's a vile rag, surely, regardless of political standpoint.


That has nothing to do with this argument. The suggestion was that the Daily Mail is anti-semitic despite a complete lack of evidence.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67525
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 02 Apr 2018, 20:58

.............
“The truth is like poetry- And most people fucking hate poetry"
"That's what we storytellers do. We restore order with imagination"
"Normality is a paved road: It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it"

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67525
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 02 Apr 2018, 20:59

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Always you.

I've never once heard you even give the remotest nod to centre left policies - you're a died-in-the-wool Tory who thinks you're not. For whatever reason.

I seriously thought you were joking but clearly not. Your continued insistence on perpetuating this hysterical 'anti-semite' witch hunt, instigated by the gutter right wing press, is appalling. Because you actually believe it. There again, you've believed every bit of every scabberous trope put out by the likes of the Mail and other right wing goons - reiterating them as fact and evidence- that we shouldn't be so surprised.

I expected better of you.


here we are. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43620717

"
Momentum, the Labour movement backing Jeremy Corbyn, has said that anti-Semitism in the party is more widespread than it had understood.

It said in a statement: "Accusations of anti-Semitism should not and cannot be dismissed simply as right-wing smears."

It acknowledged the "upset and despair" of the Jewish community and the party's "failure" to deal with anti-Semitism.

The move came as the Labour leader promised "watertight" investigations into allegations of anti-Semitism."

Must all be a right wing conspiracy then, right Pete?


At 3.39 this afternoon : (further up this very thread)



Your problem, see - you don;t read anyone else, do you?
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 02 Apr 2018, 21:01, edited 1 time in total.
“The truth is like poetry- And most people fucking hate poetry"
"That's what we storytellers do. We restore order with imagination"
"Normality is a paved road: It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it"

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6518
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Darkness_Fish » 02 Apr 2018, 20:59

Toby wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:
Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.

Is it really worth arguing the toss over which brand of bigotry The Mail is most indebted to? Ooh, they're ok with Jews, it's just the gays and muslims they hate. We can all agree it's a vile rag, surely, regardless of political standpoint.


That has nothing to do with this argument. The suggestion was that the Daily Mail is anti-semitic despite a complete lack of evidence.

Yeah, but to back it as though it was shocking it could be anti-semitic is rather odd. Given that it is hateful in so many other ways.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6518
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Darkness_Fish » 02 Apr 2018, 21:00

No horse in the argument. Just thought it was odd.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67525
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 02 Apr 2018, 21:00

Toby wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.


The paper that supported the blackshirts anti-Semitic?

What do you think?


That was in 1936.

The Mail employs a number of Jewish journalists. Do you really think that if the paper was anti-Semitic that they would work there?

You are floundering on quicksand.



In the way that Jews would stand as Labour MP's knowing that the party is rampantly anti-semitic ?

Quicksand indeed.
“The truth is like poetry- And most people fucking hate poetry"
"That's what we storytellers do. We restore order with imagination"
"Normality is a paved road: It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it"

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23630
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 02 Apr 2018, 21:11

That is a poor conflation of the argument Peter.

Is Labour anti-semitic as a whole? No. I have not stated this anywhere.

Are there elements of anti-semitism in the party that have risen or emerged under Jeremy Corbyn? The evidence suggests that this is the case.

I don't think Corbyn is anti-semitic. But the reality I suspect is that many of the oafish far lefties who have hidden under rocks for the last 30 years or so have suddenly got a voice in the party again. Are many of them anti-Semitic? I don't know, but I think quite a few of them probably believe in absurd conspiracy theories involving financial cabals and are Pro-Palestine.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23630
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Toby » 02 Apr 2018, 21:20

An article suggesting that Marx was an anti-Semite

http://www.philosophersmag.com/opinion/ ... tisemitism

User avatar
Jimbo
Posts: 15822
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Jimbo » 02 Apr 2018, 22:14

Toby wrote:An article suggesting that Marx was an anti-Semite

http://www.philosophersmag.com/opinion/ ... tisemitism


:shock:

As a non-practicing but still Jewish guy I am ashamed at the way some Jews behave, especially in the American neo-conservative wing of politics, and its no secret there are quite a few. That these individuals have striven and made their way to the tops of government is laudable but what they do when they get there, in many cases, is despicable. They want a win-win situation, security for the US and Israel but if making the two countries secure by sowing chaos, (false flags, media demonization, fake news, creating "moderate" rebel groups, etc.) keeping the "enemy" on its back foot so that the US, Israel and most of the capitalistic west can carry on doing business is sinful in any religious milieu.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67525
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Apr 2018, 05:50

Toby wrote:That is a poor conflation of the argument Peter.

Is Labour anti-semitic as a whole? No. I have not stated this anywhere.

Are there elements of anti-semitism in the party that have risen or emerged under Jeremy Corbyn? The evidence suggests that this is the case.

I don't think Corbyn is anti-semitic. But the reality I suspect is that many of the oafish far lefties who have hidden under rocks for the last 30 years or so have suddenly got a voice in the party again. Are many of them anti-Semitic? I don't know, but I think quite a few of them probably believe in absurd conspiracy theories involving financial cabals and are Pro-Palestine.


Being Pro-Palestinian doesn't make you anti-semite, obviously.

I don't think we're a million miles apart then - I'm sure I could 'name a few' right wing friends of mine who are anti-semitic too.

Where we differ is that I don't think that makes the Conservative Party anti-semite (not that you've claimed Labour are) or even that there is an endemic issue with anti-semitism in the Tory party.

As long as we can agree the same holds for Labour, then I think we're good. But, somehow, I don't think we will be agreeing that, as I believe you, Yomp and others on here are suggesting that it is a far bigger problem with Labour than Conservative.

Where I think there is a big difference is that the Labour challenge has been highlighted and, is, one would sincerely hope, being addressed.
“The truth is like poetry- And most people fucking hate poetry"
"That's what we storytellers do. We restore order with imagination"
"Normality is a paved road: It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it"

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67525
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Apr 2018, 08:36

Noam Chomsky says :

One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate Anti-Racist Campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually Pro-Racist and Anti-Semitic.

I tend to agree.
“The truth is like poetry- And most people fucking hate poetry"
"That's what we storytellers do. We restore order with imagination"
"Normality is a paved road: It's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it"

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24280
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 03 Apr 2018, 09:06

Toby wrote:IIRC the Mail article on Ralph Miliband (written by Geoffrey Levy) was purely about his firebrand socialist politics, nothing to do with being a Jew.


It was all the 1930s anti-semitic dog whistling you could want - transient, stateless, socialist, hated his host country.

The hurt protestations that it wasn't anti-semitic mean the Levy is just an unread dunce who'd write pretty much anything for money without much thought.

Then you have the - Look at the funny Jew eating a bacon sandwich!

As I said seamless move from don't vote labour it is Jewish to don't vote Labour it is anti-semitic is brazen, but how much of a moron do you have to be to buy it?
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24280
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 03 Apr 2018, 09:09

Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.


It has a history of anti-semitism a little stronger than the Labour party.

Its support for German National Socialism and the BUF is on the record.

It is an opportunistic far right newspaper, it supports the far right, the far right is in power in Israel, it holds its nose and supports them.
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24280
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 03 Apr 2018, 09:11

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Always you.

I've never once heard you even give the remotest nod to centre left policies - you're a died-in-the-wool Tory who thinks you're not. For whatever reason.

I seriously thought you were joking but clearly not. Your continued insistence on perpetuating this hysterical 'anti-semite' witch hunt, instigated by the gutter right wing press, is appalling. Because you actually believe it. There again, you've believed every bit of every scabberous trope put out by the likes of the Mail and other right wing goons - reiterating them as fact and evidence- that we shouldn't be so surprised.

I expected better of you.


here we are. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43620717

"
Momentum, the Labour movement backing Jeremy Corbyn, has said that anti-Semitism in the party is more widespread than it had understood.

It said in a statement: "Accusations of anti-Semitism should not and cannot be dismissed simply as right-wing smears."

It acknowledged the "upset and despair" of the Jewish community and the party's "failure" to deal with anti-Semitism.

The move came as the Labour leader promised "watertight" investigations into allegations of anti-Semitism."

Must all be a right wing conspiracy then, right Pete?


Good for them, there is anti-semitism in British society and it should be rooted out and exposed where ever it is.

I wonder if the Conservative Party will take any steps to root out the far greater anti-semitism in their party.

No I don't because I know the answer is no because the media will not hold them to account for it will they?
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24280
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 03 Apr 2018, 09:18

Toby wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:
Toby wrote:Really? Are you suggesting that the Daily Mail is an anti-Semitic newspaper?

I'm sure that is news to Melanie Phillips.

Is it really worth arguing the toss over which brand of bigotry The Mail is most indebted to? Ooh, they're ok with Jews, it's just the gays and muslims they hate. We can all agree it's a vile rag, surely, regardless of political standpoint.


That has nothing to do with this argument. The suggestion was that the Daily Mail is anti-semitic despite a complete lack of evidence.


Apart from the Ralph Miliband article and the Bacon sandwich thing.

As I said the DM is opportunistically far right, they use anti-semitism when the Labour Party has a Jewish leader, they attack the Labour Party for anti-semitism when the Labour Party has a leader open to dialogue with Palestinian political leaders.

Any Jewish people who work for them have to weigh up whether they feel comfortable with that.
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.