May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby K » 23 Dec 2017, 15:22

yomptepi wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.


In which case nearly every MP in the house needs to be locked up. Resources are stretched, and office space is at a premium. Also these mp's have teams of researchers, advisers and interns, all of whom need to use the office, and inevitably, the office computer. Green could have been dictating those emails to a colleague over the phone, and that person was the one using the internet inappropriately. It was nine years ago. I suspect the number of people through that office is huge since then.
What I do not understand is why you find it so difficult to grasp the difference between illegal and breaching rules. No one has suggested that anything illegal has happened here. Only Pete and some of his witless cohorts. There has been a breach of the ministerial code, and inappropriate use of a government computer. Just like there is every day in every town hall across the country. And probably in every school across the country. Internet security has never been a priority for the public sector. How else are all those useless office boobies going to book their holidays and share their miserable lives on social media whilst supposedly working ever so hard? Are we going to demonise every single public sector worker with access to a computer now?


I guess you don't work with a network. Everyone could (and should) have an individual log in. No problems with resources. Even if there is one PC in the whole building
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Darkness_Fish » 23 Dec 2017, 16:22

yomptepi wrote:Green could have been dictating those emails to a colleague over the phone, and that person was the one using the internet inappropriately.

"Hi Bob, it's Damian here. Could you do me a favour and log into my PC as me. Right, open up Outlook Express, and look through my private communications, which could have sensitive data and personal correspondence with constituents. Yep, done that, ok, right are you listening, take note of this. What do you mean speak slowly, you've only got one free hand?"
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 18:48

Darkness_Fish wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Green could have been dictating those emails to a colleague over the phone, and that person was the one using the internet inappropriately.

"Hi Bob, it's Damian here. Could you do me a favour and log into my PC as me. Right, open up Outlook Express, and look through my private communications, which could have sensitive data and personal correspondence with constituents. Yep, done that, ok, right are you listening, take note of this. What do you mean speak slowly, you've only got one free hand?"


He is a public servant. What can I tell you?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 18:49

Darryl Strawberry wrote:I guess you don't work with a network. Everyone could (and should) have an individual log in. No problems with resources. Even if there is one PC in the whole building


Could they do that ten years ago? Was that facility in place in every office in the HofC. Are you absolutely sure?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Goat Boy » 23 Dec 2017, 18:57

I would seriously expect that to be the case. That's been standard practice for longer than ten years
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Very Stable Baron » 23 Dec 2017, 19:01

I am a public servant who works for a much stingier government than the UK. And everyone, including interns, has their own computers with their own passwords and access to certain shared files. This has been the case for well over a decade. Hope this helps!
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 19:08

Still Baron wrote:I am a public servant who works for a much stingier government than the UK. And everyone, including interns, has their own computers with their own passwords and access to certain shared files. This has been the case for well over a decade. Hope this helps!


It has been made clear that there was limited access to computers, and that they were shared as a matter of course.

Anyway, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

The culture of sharing machines has been admitted.
The culture of sharing passwords has been admitted.
The fact that interns, advisers and even other mp's had access the the machine has also been admitted.
I don't see that it can ever be proved that he dl'd the smut.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Deebank » 23 Dec 2017, 19:13

It seems highly unlikely that someone else would nip into his office for a quick shufty and a Thomas the Tank without deleting the history.

Even one as willing as you are to forgive any crime no matter how heinous if committed by a Tory should acknowledge that surely?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 19:26

Deebank wrote:It seems highly unlikely that someone else would nip into his office for a quick shufty and a Thomas the Tank without deleting the history.

Even one as willing as you are to forgive any crime no matter how heinous if committed by a Tory should acknowledge that surely?


I think it is very likely that he did. But that doesn't prove anything, does it? I am unwilling to forgive any crime committed by any MP, of any party. I have no idea how computer savvy Green is. I suspect it was Dennis Skinner. Nipped in, got the porn , and called the police. It is exactly the sort of thing he would do.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby K » 23 Dec 2017, 19:41

For someone with "no horse in this race" Yomp is certainly trying to find ways to excuse Green: it as someone with his login, he's not IT savvy, logins could be shared in those days, it was Denis Skinner....

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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 19:43

"Besides downloading porn, and lying to the police, and the PM, and the public, and touching up a journalist and texting her inappropriately, and sharing his password....besides all that... what has Damian Green ever done for us?! "
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 20:20

"Besides downloading porn,

unproven
and lying to the police,

they were not the police

and the PM,

yes
and the public,

well he didn't lie to me, but if you want to take it personally...

and touching up a journalist

he touched her knee, which wouldn't normally constitute touching up as such, but since you are taking such very high moral ground here, I will give you that one

and texting her inappropriately,

She had posed in a corset, and he was somewhat clumbsy in his attempt to compliment her. Which was a bit creepy, but again since you are taking such extreme moral high ground here, I will concede this too...

and sharing his password.

which was common practice and the computer was office furniture rather than his lappy.....

.besides all that... what has Damian Green ever done for us?! "[/quote]

You have nothing.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 20:22

Darryl Strawberry wrote:For someone with "no horse in this race" Yomp is certainly trying to find ways to excuse Green: it as someone with his login, he's not IT savvy, logins could be shared in those days, it was Denis Skinner....

...it was like that when I got here


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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 23 Dec 2017, 21:13

yomptepi wrote:Show me where anyone , other than you , has suggested that national security was threatened.

Even your new best mate Copey says he has done nothing criminal. ...


Pete will never replace you in my life Mike, calm down. There is room for both of you.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 23 Dec 2017, 21:24

he started a war with the filth, he got fucked over.
The stupid thing is he started a war with them knowing he was in the wrong, massive hubris
If he'd kept his gob shut and made a few strategic apologies this would have blown over but his ego couldn't take that.
same with that cunt who got into a fight with the police on the gate about them not opening the security gates for him so he didn't have to push his bike 5 yards. He lied he started a war with the police and he got fucked as well, they just don't learn do they?
Both these cunts actually kept their jobs though because Tories will vote for proven liars with monstrous egos and zero idea about public service regardless.

The scandal is how these people remain MPs, and that isn't a party political thing, all sides closed ranks to protect an abuser like Cyril Smith.

Their loyalty is to themselves, then their party then MPs as a whole before the public or the country get a look in, the Tories and Brexit show that beyond a shadow of a doubt
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 23:30

Copehead wrote:he started a war with the filth, he got fucked over.
The stupid thing is he started a war with them knowing he was in the wrong, massive hubris
If he'd kept his gob shut and made a few strategic apologies this would have blown over but his ego couldn't take that.
same with that cunt who got into a fight with the police on the gate about them not opening the security gates for him so he didn't have to push his bike 5 yards. He lied he started a war with the police and he got fucked as well, they just don't learn do they?
Both these cunts actually kept their jobs though because Tories will vote for proven liars with monstrous egos and zero idea about public service regardless.

The scandal is how these people remain MPs, and that isn't a party political thing, all sides closed ranks to protect an abuser like Cyril Smith.

Their loyalty is to themselves, then their party then MPs as a whole before the public or the country get a look in, the Tories and Brexit show that beyond a shadow of a doubt


Now we are getting somewhere.

I think this is probably the nub of the matter. Like a snake eating its own tail.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 28 Dec 2017, 22:41

This article shows the absolute inability to think in supposedly highly educated politicians:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/28/tory-mp-condemns-universal-basic-income-on-moral-grounds

I mean pick the logic out of this:

Mankind is hard-wired to work. We gain satisfaction from it. It gives us a sense of identity, purpose and belonging … we should not be trying to create a world in which most people do not feel the need to work.”


This twat can contradict his is argument in the same sentence without even realizing it.

Plus the basic premise isn't even correct from a sociological or biological viewpoint. For most of mankind's history we were hunter gatherers who worked just enough to keep ourselves fed like any other animal.

And as for the moral problem for giving money to people who have done nothing to earn it does his ability to think allow him to connect the direct line in that chain of thought to inherited wealth, like the kind he has benefited from? Of course it fucking doesn't, his thinking stops at prole money he probably hasn't got the intellect or imagination to conceive of his wealth as unearned.

How can this thick cunt have a moral problem with making sure that everyone has food to eat and decent shelter, but no moral problem with tens of thousands of people living on the streets millions needing food banks and cuts in basic payments to disabled people?

The right's politics is poisonous it morally corrupts people and makes them see their fellow human beings as problems and a potential threat to their own wealth.

Some form of Universal Basic Income is coming unless we are willing to see our fellow citizens living in absolute poverty in ever greater numbers, there will come a point where even the morally stunted morons who read the Sun and the Daily Mail will realize that people like Boles lump them in with the destitute and will have no problem seeing them go the same way if it protects their unearned wealth.


There was some comedy gold in the article though

Boles is widely viewed by his colleagues as one of the more thoughtful backbenchers in a party hungry for a convincing riposte to Corbyn’s radical socialism.
:lol:

If I can pick holes in his thesis I think he has problems, it wouldn't pass muster as an A level essay surely.


He does make a convincing case that Marx was correct though, although inadvertently I'd imagine:

Boles warned that taxing firms that benefit from automation would simply discourage them from investing. “The only sure result of a robot tax would be lower investment, lower productivity and lower wages.”


Or as Marx put it: ownership of the means of production coming into conflict with the productive possibilities

We can only have technological advances in the means of production if it suits and enriches the owners of capital

When robots and computers remove even more productive jobs from economy you wonder who Boles thinks is going to buy the goods produced? Perhaops he envisages an economy where we all deliver parcels to each other for minimum wage or less, he appears to be thick enough.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2017, 01:13

I am still baffled by the fact that when I was at school I was told we were heading into an age of leisure, and that most people would only have to work 20 hours a week. Most people i know , myself included are lucky if we only work 60 hours a week. What went wrong? And why is it that despite all the automation , and the digitalisation of information, that we have more people working in this country than ever before, and for less money? The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike). It makes me very suspicious of these predictions that so many jobs will be lost. If it was the case, surely most of them would have gone already?
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 04:07

yomptepi wrote:I am still baffled by the fact that when I was at school I was told we were heading into an age of leisure, and that most people would only have to work 20 hours a week. Most people i know , myself included are lucky if we only work 60 hours a week. What went wrong? And why is it that despite all the automation , and the digitalisation of information, that we have more people working in this country than ever before, and for less money? The only people who seem to have benefited are public sector workers, most of whom only work 30 hours a week, ( when they are not off on long term sick leave, or on strike). It makes me very suspicious of these predictions that so many jobs will be lost. If it was the case, surely most of them would have gone already?


Probably because we cannot have a sensible discussion about productive and unproductive work in the country without a twat like that making some specious argument about man's natural state as a serf like worker.

What you were told would happen largely happened as manufacturing became automated and comparatively well paid working class jobs were shed at a frightening rate, people moved into service industries and productivity took a nose dive which continues, to the bafflement of seemingly intelligent people, to this day. Instead of working productively 20 hours a week people work far longer doing less to earn the same.

But when deliveries can be made by driverless vans, when lorries are driverless, when call centers become more automated when everybody just cut each others hair what then? Who then buys the products that the computers and robots are making?

I think it is a nettle that is going to have to be grasped in the next generation or so.

It seems clear to me that rather than make people scrabble around for useless, unproductive jobs that pay them barely enough to survive ( so little that 23 million pay no income tax as they don't earn enough money ) so then they have to eke out extra payments from the state for children, rent, disability etc etc etc it makes far more sense to pay everyone from Richard Branson downwards ( the money will be clawed back from the rich by taxation anyway and it has long been known that benefits for the poor are poor benefits ) enough money so they can house and feed themselves and their family and then let them decide what to do? The vast majority will work as they have always done to top up this money and have a better life, some will use the money to pursue creative endeavours and some of those will get very rich and pay lots of tax back.

A few will take the money and live a life of worthless indolence, but enough about the Royal family, but people do that anyway and generally use petty crime to do it.

But it seems to me we are coming to a branch in the road and the other branch is far far nastier.
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Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 29 Dec 2017, 06:30

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/29/uk-to-sink-to-the-bottom-of-oecd-wage-growth-index-in-2018

More evidence of the economic and political competence of the Conservative party that The Bear is so enamored of:


Britain is set to have the worst wage growth of any wealthy nation next year, ranking behind Italy, Greece and Hungary, according to analysis by the TUC.

The UK is forecast to come bottom from 32 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development wealthy nations for wage performance in 2018, according to the study of OECD figures by the unions’ umbrella group.

British workers are expected to see their earnings decrease by 0.7% in 2018 when taking account of inflation, which has surged in the past year as a result of the pound’s weakness since the EU referendum, pushing up the cost of importing food and fuel.

Only two other OECD nations – Spain and Italy – are expected to record negative wage growth, although both still outperform the UK.


It used to be mugs voted Tory because even if they were nasty they made you richer, apparently, although my rags to riches story happened nearly entirely under a Labour Government.

Now unless you are a millionaire they are nasty and they are making you poorer.

But morons will still vote Tory because Corbyn is like Venezuela init.

I think Michael Gove could literally come round to Mike's house and stick an enormous arm sized black dildo up his arse, steal his records and burn his guitars in front of his weeping, pain wracked face and he would still believe things would be worse under Labour.
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