May still desperately clinging on to power

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24091
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Copehead » 23 Dec 2017, 09:42

yomptepi wrote:Excuse me.

"The ex-police officers where in a position to show that he was lying and good on them for doing so, that is definitely in the public interest."

It may be in the public interest. But it is not a criminal matter. And the fact that the officer had only one notebook he kept from his days at the Met, and it was the one on Damian Green, is more than enough to speculate that the man had a vendetta against him. I know you struggle with debate Will, and Pete has the same problem, but I am not defending green's behaviour as an MP , or as a decent human being. I am making the point that this was not a police matter,and that their involvement was for personal reasons rather than as part of a criminal investigation. An illegally held document was used, under the guise of a police investigation which did not exist, to damage the reputation of a government minister. And not for the first time.. You might want to turn this into a partisan debate ( as you always do), but the FACTS of the matter are that this was NOT a police matter , and the two officers were involved as part of a personal vendetta. That is what I have said all along, and accusing me of trying to protect the reputation of man I have no regard for in order to defend your puerile attempts at debate simply will not stand.


I don't believe anyone has said that he did anything criminal, I certainly haven't, just stuff that would get all of us sacked from our jobs.

I imagine he kept the note book because he wanted some insurance to keep him safe from a vindictive scum bag like Green.

Seems to have done the trick as well.

They didn't damage his reputation, he lied and they exposed it, if he had told the truth they would have had no hold over him at all, but he didn't.

Zero sympathy.
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 09:44

Diamond Dog wrote:
And you may want to accept that people who sign the Official Secrets Act are bound by security rules, both in hard and electronic versions - and allowing free access to your computer is actually against the law and is, therefore, a criminal matter which leads to a police investigation.

But as always, you won't see beyond your own convoluted 'logic' because you have a baying crowd hanging on every incorrect word you utter, and you love playing the hero!


There was a police investigation at the time, and nothing illegal was found. Dealing with the security implications is an internal matter, not a criminal matter.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 09:46

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Excuse me.

"The ex-police officers where in a position to show that he was lying and good on them for doing so, that is definitely in the public interest."

It may be in the public interest. But it is not a criminal matter. And the fact that the officer had only one notebook he kept from his days at the Met, and it was the one on Damian Green, is more than enough to speculate that the man had a vendetta against him. I know you struggle with debate Will, and Pete has the same problem, but I am not defending green's behaviour as an MP , or as a decent human being. I am making the point that this was not a police matter,and that their involvement was for personal reasons rather than as part of a criminal investigation. An illegally held document was used, under the guise of a police investigation which did not exist, to damage the reputation of a government minister. And not for the first time.. You might want to turn this into a partisan debate ( as you always do), but the FACTS of the matter are that this was NOT a police matter , and the two officers were involved as part of a personal vendetta. That is what I have said all along, and accusing me of trying to protect the reputation of man I have no regard for in order to defend your puerile attempts at debate simply will not stand.


I don't believe anyone has said that he did anything criminal, I certainly haven't, just stuff that would get all of us sacked from our jobs.

I imagine he kept the note book because he wanted some insurance to keep him safe from a vindictive scum bag like Green.

Seems to have done the trick as well.

They didn't damage his reputation, he lied and they exposed it, if he had told the truth they would have had no hold over him at all, but he didn't.

Zero sympathy.


Well that's all right then.

No criminal case
Illegally held " evidence"
Good reasons for a vendetta.

Jesus wept.

Basically what you are saying is that nothing matters because he is tory, and therefore he deserves. That is the entirety of the case against him. He had to go because he broke the ministerial code. He is clearly a deeply unpleasant man ( but then all politicians are ), and he had to go. But the facts matter.
Last edited by yomptepi on 23 Dec 2017, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 09:48

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
And you may want to accept that people who sign the Official Secrets Act are bound by security rules, both in hard and electronic versions - and allowing free access to your computer is actually against the law and is, therefore, a criminal matter which leads to a police investigation.

But as always, you won't see beyond your own convoluted 'logic' because you have a baying crowd hanging on every incorrect word you utter, and you love playing the hero!


There was a police investigation at the time, and nothing illegal was found. Dealing with the security implications is an internal matter, not a criminal matter.


NOT if it's breaching national security.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 09:52

Diamond Dog wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
And you may want to accept that people who sign the Official Secrets Act are bound by security rules, both in hard and electronic versions - and allowing free access to your computer is actually against the law and is, therefore, a criminal matter which leads to a police investigation.

But as always, you won't see beyond your own convoluted 'logic' because you have a baying crowd hanging on every incorrect word you utter, and you love playing the hero!


There was a police investigation at the time, and nothing illegal was found. Dealing with the security implications is an internal matter, not a criminal matter.


NOT if it's breaching national security.


Show me where anyone , other than you , has suggested that national security was threatened.

Even your new best mate Copey says he has done nothing criminal. It is just you Pete.


Just you...
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 10:10

How do you or I know what was on his computer?
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 10:11

Well, besides porn. We know that was on there. Now.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Pansy Puff
Posts: 8684
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 21:10
Location: Under the watchful eye of the Clive police

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Pansy Puff » 23 Dec 2017, 10:47

yomptepi wrote:
PENK wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Labour haven’t been ineffectual as an opposition, especially where Brexit is concerned.


Labour have been ineffectual as an opposition but it should still be no choice between supporting them or the Tories. Whatever you think of Corbyn's oddball decision-making and the party's split between old-school socialism and the New Labour centre-right, you just have to look across the hall and see people like Green, Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson to know where your vote should be. How much interest do any of the Conservative cabinet have in making life better for the people of the UK? Labour might be a mess but you get the impression they'd at least try.


Utter rubbish.

I look across the Labour benches, and I see exactly the same self serving, self interested cunts I see on the Tory side. I see grossly incompetent half wits, mathematically challenged idiots who couldn't add two and two and get four. I see Blairite acolytes wheedling their way into the upper ranks on the front bench with half thought out so called "populist " plans which are little more than bribes to their core membership. Any idea that there is more honour in supporting that bunch of lazy , good for nothing, ham fisted dim wits, than the self serving , corrupt money grabbing cunts in the tory benches is quite frankly stupid.

The Happy Mondays were disqualified from a special edition of the BBC’s Bargain Hunt after Bez broke the show’s rules by artificially inflating prices, handing victory to Pulp.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 10:49

Diamond Dog wrote:Well, besides p888. We know that was on there. Now.


But we still cannot be 100% sure that he downloaded it. There was a shared password. It is impossible to prove either way. Of course you prefer the Corbyn style lynch mob justice system. Set the fucking hipster momentum drones on the internet and get him found guilty. Of course you do. So much easier than actually finding out what is going on. After all. Let's be honest. Tory = guilty, eh Pete...
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 10:57

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Well, besides p888. We know that was on there. Now.


But we still cannot be 100% sure that he downloaded it. There was a shared password. It is impossible to prove either way.


Okay. So it wasn't him.

So he allowed someone to share his password, who then viewed and downloaded porn, whilst opening up and replying to Green's emails.

And this is better in which way, precisely?
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
Pansy Puff
Posts: 8684
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 21:10
Location: Under the watchful eye of the Clive police

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Pansy Puff » 23 Dec 2017, 10:59

If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.
The Happy Mondays were disqualified from a special edition of the BBC’s Bargain Hunt after Bez broke the show’s rules by artificially inflating prices, handing victory to Pulp.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 11:14

Darryl Strawberry wrote:If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.


I know that, you know that.

Apparently Yomp doesn't. Or doesn't think it important.

Anymore important than lying to the police, the PM and the public.

Or viewing porn in the HofC on a ministeral computer and/or sharing his password to said computer.

Or making improper physical advances to a female journalist and then compounding that by following up with inappropriate texts to her.

All of the above doesn't matter.

Because what fucking well matters is that the police are turning the screw on Green to get a budgetary increase this year. THAT'S WHAT FUCKING MATTERS, MATEY!
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 12:22

Diamond Dog wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.


I know that, you know that.

Apparently Yomp doesn't. Or doesn't think it important.

Anymore important than lying to the police, the PM and the public.

Or viewing porn in the HofC on a ministeral computer and/or sharing his password to said computer.

Or making improper physical advances to a female journalist and then compounding that by following up with inappropriate texts to her.

All of the above doesn't matter.

Because what fucking well matters is that the police are turning the screw on Green to get a budgetary increase this year. THAT'S WHAT FUCKING MATTERS, MATEY!


You are beyond parody. Really. get a grip.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 12:30

Darryl Strawberry wrote:If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.


In which case nearly every MP in the house needs to be locked up. Resources are stretched, and office space is at a premium. Also these mp's have teams of researchers, advisers and interns, all of whom need to use the office, and inevitably, the office computer. Green could have been dictating those emails to a colleague over the phone, and that person was the one using the internet inappropriately. It was nine years ago. I suspect the number of people through that office is huge since then.
What I do not understand is why you find it so difficult to grasp the difference between illegal and breaching rules. No one has suggested that anything illegal has happened here. Only Pete and some of his witless cohorts. There has been a breach of the ministerial code, and inappropriate use of a government computer. Just like there is every day in every town hall across the country. And probably in every school across the country. Internet security has never been a priority for the public sector. How else are all those useless office boobies going to book their holidays and share their miserable lives on social media whilst supposedly working ever so hard? Are we going to demonise every single public sector worker with access to a computer now?
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 12:41

Anymore important than lying to the police, the PM and the public.

Or viewing porn in the HofC on a ministeral computer and/or sharing his password to said computer.

Or making improper physical advances to a female journalist and then compounding that by following up with inappropriate texts to her.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 13:40

Diamond Dog wrote:
Darryl Strawberry wrote:If he shared his password that's a transgression of the data protection act.


I know that, you know that.

Apparently Yomp doesn't. Or doesn't think it important.

Anymore important than lying to the police, the PM and the public.


Technically, he did not lie to the police. They were retired officers with no right to get involved. They got involved for reasons of a personal vendetta and are going to be prosecuted for that.

Diamond Dog wrote:Or viewing p888 in the HofC on a ministerial computer and/or sharing his password to said computer.


No proof of this. The passwords were freely shared between his staff and this was/ is not unusual.[/quote]

O
Diamond Dog wrote:r making improper physical advances to a female journalist and then compounding that by following up with inappropriate texts to her.



She was a friend of the family and he was used to being around her. Yes , he may have behaved badly and allowed himself to be a bit creepy, but the way she has used this situation to help her failing career as a commentator is every bit as vile as Green's behaviour. But then she is a journalist. What does anyone expect?

You have nothing.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 13:44

Jeez. You really are getting desperate. Have you learnt nothing?
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 13:53

Diamond Dog wrote:Jeez. You really are getting desperate. Have you learnt nothing?



I have learned everything I need to about this case. I have the facts, the timelines and I have listened to informed opinion on what is going on. All you see is any excuse to kick a tory. As always. The facts and circumstances are of no interest to you, nor is legal standing of the facts. You do not have even the faintest clue what is going on. All you see with glee is the fall of another government minister, and that is more than enough for you. And oddly I have no problem with the end result of this fiasco. I do have a problem with the the fact that two retired policeman used illegally obtained evidence to bring him down, and that nothing illegal has been done, except in your mind.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 66672
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Dec 2017, 14:02

Well that's not quite it is it Michael - you've disparaged an allegation of improper sexual behaviour by a female journalist with none other than 'all journos are scum, so she's making it up to further her career'. You have absolutely not one scintilla of evidence to back this up - but you're quite happy to adopt exactly the same attitude as those who supported Harvey Weinstein for years. You are excusing deplorable behaviour because you don;t like journalists. How open minded of you.

You are doing exactly the same with the police - you are saying that the porn that was viewed was possibly not viewed by Green. Even though at exactly the same time the same computer was being used to dip in and out of his emails. You believe the most likely reason for this is that Green gave whoever this person was his password - and allowed him to use his emails too. You seriously believe that is a more likely scenario than it was Green himself - and you believe it because you place the police alongside journalists at the bottom of professional merit.

There is only one person typecasting others behaviour here - and it sure as shit isn't me. You are talking utter and complete bollocks.
1-800-288-8372

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35387
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: May still desperately clinging on to power

Postby yomptepi » 23 Dec 2017, 14:19

Diamond Dog wrote:Well that's not quite it is it Michael - you've disparaged an allegation of improper sexual behaviour by a female journalist with none other than 'all journos are scum, so she's making it up to further her career'. You have absolutely not one scintilla of evidence to back this up - but you're quite happy to adopt exactly the same attitude as those who supported Harvey Weinstein for years. You are excusing deplorable behaviour because you don;t like journalists. How open minded of you.

You are doing exactly the same with the police - you are saying that the p88n that was viewed was possibly not viewed by Green. Even though at exactly the same time the same computer was being used to dip in and out of his emails. You believe the most likely reason for this is that Green gave whoever this person was his password - and allowed him to use his emails too. You seriously believe that is a more likely scenario than it was Green himself - and you believe it because you place the police alongside journalists at the bottom of professional merit.

There is only one person typecasting others behaviour here - and it sure as shit isn't me. You are talking utter and complete bollocks.


Congratulations.

My point was that she was not a stranger, and had been a family friend of his all her life. Which does somewhat change the colour of her allegations. Of course it is easy for you take the high ground, bring in Weinstien, and for fuck's sake, why not Hitler too. Throw in the whole fucking kitchen sink. His behaviour may have been deplorable, but there is clearly much more to her play than a touch on the knee and a creepy text. And her dad is tory you know? Maybe that will alter your opinion?

the point with the smut is that it was neither extreme nor was it illegal. Therefore of no interest to the police.

Hey ho.
You don't like me...do you?