The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby clive gash » 16 Apr 2017, 12:38

What is a pud anyway?
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Apr 2017, 12:40

My grandad was a pud, how fucking dare you
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby clive gash » 16 Apr 2017, 12:46

I'm so sorry.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby K » 16 Apr 2017, 12:54

Goat Boy wrote:But why would you research something like that? Like I said, he doesn't look mixed race so why would anybody research his family tree just in case he had a black relative before making that comment?

Maybe he did know but you can't prove there is any racist intent there and, frankly, throwing such accusations around is sometimes self defeating for the left.

Do you mean that because you didn't know he was mixed race (ie he doesn't "look" black enough) any accusations of racism can only come from the 'social justice warriors' of the left? His background is pretty well known in Liverpool, and this paper and McKenzie in particular have a dreadful relationship with the city. These kinds of things add context to it all.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Apr 2017, 13:31

K wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:But why would you research something like that? Like I said, he doesn't look mixed race so why would anybody research his family tree just in case he had a black relative before making that comment?

Maybe he did know but you can't prove there is any racist intent there and, frankly, throwing such accusations around is sometimes self defeating for the left.

Do you mean that because you didn't know he was mixed race (ie he doesn't "look" black enough) any accusations of racism can only come from the 'social justice warriors' of the left? His background is pretty well known in Liverpool, and this paper and McKenzie in particular have a dreadful relationship with the city. These kinds of things add context to it all.


How do you know his background is "pretty well known" in Liverpool? Even if it were that doesn't mean we should all know this. Clearly people on this thread didn't know he had a black grandfather, you know?

Put simply, I'm saying accusations of racist intent here are unproven and focusing on this angle is something that left wingers would naturally do because racism is very bad. It's distracting. Focus on the comments about Liverpool and the timing with Hillsbrough. That's what people can understand and relate to. Trying to pin racism on him because he compared a white man to a gorilla (albeit one with a black grandfather) is a stretch.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Rayge » 16 Apr 2017, 13:34

Goat Boy wrote:Trying to pin racism on him because he compared a white man to a gorilla (albeit one with a black grandfather) is a stretch.


as a point of order, virtually all gorillas have a black grandfather*, albeit often with a silver back.



*albinism is very rare in gorillas
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Apr 2017, 13:40

Goat Boy wrote: Focus on the comments about Liverpool and the timing with Hillsbrough. That's what people can understand and relate to. Trying to pin racism on him because he compared a white man to a gorilla (albeit one with a black grandfather) is a stretch.


You may have a point here - I personally have no doubt that McKenzie knew what he was doing but proving it would be well nigh impossible, I agree.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Apr 2017, 13:48

I suspect so but in the real world that doesn't mean that much. Clearly he is a troll. If it's not Scousers it's scrounging Scots etc. That's what he does and that's what he likes doing. Perhaps he did know about the grandfather and did it deliberately knowing that people he hates would pick up on it. It's quite possible but then it's possible like me and others he had no idea Barkley was part black, you know?
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby K » 16 Apr 2017, 14:07

You misunderstand me. I don't thinking is important that lots if people on BCB were unaware of Berkeley's mixed race. It is well known amongst many Liverpudlians. Like DD said, I am sure McKenzie knew but we'd have a hell of a time proving it.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Goat Boy » 16 Apr 2017, 14:26

It's not important but I mentioned it to illustrate that it is not common knowledge and that's it's possible Mckenzie never knew this. As to whether it is common knowledge amongst Liverpudlians is conjecture I'm afraid.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby PENK » 16 Apr 2017, 21:31

I somehow doubt that McKenzie has that much contact with Liverpudlians and what contact he does have probably doesn't involve them feeding him random facts about the genealogy of Premier League footballers.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Jeemo » 16 Apr 2017, 23:49

Conversely the thought that the Sun ran a piece without doing any background research by any junior reporters before publishing is beyond belief. Even just from a purely legal basis.

The Mirror and Telegraph had stories about Barkley being eligible for Nigeria years ago.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby K » 17 Apr 2017, 08:20

Listen to Jeemo here. There were pieces when he first broke into the Everton team and loads when he first played for England ("Ten England players who could play for different countries")

Fuck the Sun - they knew.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby clive gash » 17 Apr 2017, 08:42

Ooh, I'm offended too!

This can be moved into the Jimbo thread now.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Deebank » 17 Apr 2017, 10:08

As a matter of procedure 'edgy' opinion pieces like this should be run by the legal team and even if the copy appears at the last minute there is always someone 'on call', so they certainly knew.

I reckon they just took a punt on it being a legal grey area and them getting away with it.

I'm not sure what the point was though.

Ultimately the buck stops with the editor. They are legally responsible for all content (ed and ads). They have the choice of spiking or running a column, so they should be under scrutiny too.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Fonz » 17 Apr 2017, 11:16

K wrote:Listen to Jeemo here. There were pieces when he first broke into the Everton team and loads when he first played for England ("Ten England players who could play for different countries")

Fuck the Sun - they knew.


It still boils down to whether you consider 'gorilla' to be a racist term.
I never have. Maybe I've had a sheltered life.


Don't get me wrong. I despise The Sun, McKenzie, and Sky. I won't have any of them in my house.

Does anyone here have Sky?

Okay, I just looked on an urban dictionary, and about 3-4 definitions down it says 'gorilla' is a slang term for a black man.
I stand corrected-it is a derogatory term for a black man. But only one of several definitions for the word.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Deebank » 17 Apr 2017, 11:22

Fonz wrote:
K wrote:Listen to Jeemo here. There were pieces when he first broke into the Everton team and loads when he first played for England ("Ten England players who could play for different countries")

Fuck the Sun - they knew.


It still boils down to whether you consider 'gorilla' to be a racist term.
I never have. Maybe I've had a sheltered life.


Don't get me wrong. I despise The Sun, McKenzie, and Sky. I won't have any of them in my house.

Does anyone here have Sky?

Okay, I just looked on an urban dictionary, and about 3-4 definitions down it says 'gorilla' is a slang term for a black man.
I stand corrected-it is a derogatory term for a black man. But only one of several definitions for the word.


I think in a football context - along with the once popular bananas and simian grunting aimed at black players - it is certainly a racial slur.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby K » 17 Apr 2017, 11:32

Ironically, I'm linking to the photo via the Sun's website.
Image
They wrote:
It was a photo that shamed football fans back in 1988.

Liverpool star John Barnes was snapped back-kicking away a banana thrown by a
racist section of the crowd at an FA Cup game.

But now — 24 years since that infamous incident at Everton’s Goodison Park
ground — despite efforts to fight racism, it has still not been eradicated
from football or society as a whole.
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Apr 2017, 14:46

Terrible thing racism
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Re: The Sun Up To Its Old Tricks re city of Liverpool.

Postby Rayge » 17 Apr 2017, 17:55

Goat Boy wrote:Terrible thing racism


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