Should Osborne resign?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Osborne- time to go

Poll ended at 17 Apr 2017, 13:49

Yes
9
90%
No
1
10%
 
Total votes: 10

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yomptepi
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby yomptepi » 20 Mar 2017, 11:58

Ruling the Labour party.

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I am all in favour of the redistribution of the royal families wealth.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 12:01

yomptepi wrote:Ruling the Labour party.


SO not ruling at all then.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 12:02

PresMuffley wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Toby wrote:
There was a fairly substantial investigative journalism piece yesterday about the Hard Left's infiltration of the Labour Party.


"Hard left"

:lol:

Since when has a mild Keynsian, mixed economy approach been 'hard left'?

When you actually look at what Corbyn is proposing it is all very reasonable - many policies are even popular with tories (re-nationalising rail for one).


Yeah, I haven't noticed any substantive talk of workers taking control of their places of employment or redistribution of the monarchy's wealth.


Indeed, far from it, but it suits our right wing overlords to perpetuate that myth.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Purgatory Brite » 20 Mar 2017, 12:04

Toby wrote:he's not tainted with defeat over Brexit quite like Cameron is


Are you sure? It was Osborne who threatened the post-Brexit "punishment budget". He was a full participant in the Remain campaign's Project Fear.

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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby yomptepi » 20 Mar 2017, 12:08

Purgatory Brite wrote:
Toby wrote:he's not tainted with defeat over Brexit quite like Cameron is


Are you sure? It was Osborne who threatened the post-Brexit "punishment budget". He was a full participant in the Remain campaign's Project Fear.


I agree. I think Osbourne is equally tainted, and is just as fatally injured as Cameron. I don't see any future for him, as he will always be seen as the one of the architects of Brexit. Not that he was ever Mr Popular...
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby yomptepi » 20 Mar 2017, 12:09

Deebank wrote:
PresMuffley wrote:
Deebank wrote:
"Hard left"

:lol:

Since when has a mild Keynsian, mixed economy approach been 'hard left'?

When you actually look at what Corbyn is proposing it is all very reasonable - many policies are even popular with tories (re-nationalising rail for one).


Yeah, I haven't noticed any substantive talk of workers taking control of their places of employment or redistribution of the monarchy's wealth.


Indeed, far from it, but it suits our right wing overlords to perpetuate that myth.


And yet you just mentioned nationalising the railways...
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby PresMuffley » 20 Mar 2017, 12:22

yomptepi wrote: ruling metropolitan elite only too happy to belittle a working man.


This sounds like a very familiar trope constantly hammered into those with a lesser degree of education - you must be afraid of your betters, etc. There's an underlying condescension in the ones who typically spout such nonsense that I find much more despicable, and worthy of much greater concern than snooty city folks.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Toby » 20 Mar 2017, 12:37

Purgatory Brite wrote:
Toby wrote:he's not tainted with defeat over Brexit quite like Cameron is


Are you sure? It was Osborne who threatened the post-Brexit "punishment budget". He was a full participant in the Remain campaign's Project Fear.


He didn't pull the trigger though on the decision for the referendum. Cameron will always have that decision and the consequences of it attached to him. Osborne was a full participant in Project Fear for sure, but I think he has a political life left in him - the events of the next few years are very difficult to predict.

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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Toby » 20 Mar 2017, 12:39

For talk about the hard left infiltration of the party, this article has the audio recording of Jon Lansmann's (founder of Momentum) plans to depose Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu

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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 Mar 2017, 13:45

Toby wrote:
Purgatory Brite wrote:
Toby wrote:he's not tainted with defeat over Brexit quite like Cameron is


Are you sure? It was Osborne who threatened the post-Brexit "punishment budget". He was a full participant in the Remain campaign's Project Fear.


He didn't pull the trigger though on the decision for the referendum. Cameron will always have that decision and the consequences of it attached to him. Osborne was a full participant in Project Fear for sure, but I think he has a political life left in him - the events of the next few years are very difficult to predict.


I don't think so. Osborne always struck me as completely unconcerned about 'politics' as such - merely as a tool to progress his finances. He most certainly doesn't need it (financially) and doesn't appear the most naturally gifted at making alliances - which he would certainly need if he ever made a run at another top office.

No, he'll see this editor's job as the way to gain even more contacts in the media, to progress his career as one of the top guys at one of the top banks - working 8 hours a week for a multi-million pound contract.

That's his aim in life.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby kewl klive » 20 Mar 2017, 14:21

Some remarkably original "thinking" there Peter. Have you ever considered writing for a living?

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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 14:48

yomptepi wrote:
Deebank wrote:
PresMuffley wrote:
Yeah, I haven't noticed any substantive talk of workers taking control of their places of employment or redistribution of the monarchy's wealth.


Indeed, far from it, but it suits our right wing overlords to perpetuate that myth.


And yet you just mentioned nationalising the railways...


A popular policy even with tory voters - so hardly 'hard left'.

You are evidently out of touch with 'angry of Tunbridge Wells' who has to use the utterly fucking shambolic Southern Rail on a daily basis (as do many of my old friends back in Brighton and its environs) - and shambolic way before any industrial action kicked off to boot. Regardless of their political stripe they are praying for someone to sort out the mess - the favoured route seems to be re-nationalisation. It worked for the Eastern Mainline - a success under public ownership and thus sold back to their private sector mates by your friends in the tory party.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby yomptepi » 20 Mar 2017, 15:32

Southern rail is not the entire network, and there is still a huge number of people who remember how the railways were under public ownership, and would never go back to those dreadful days.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Toby » 20 Mar 2017, 15:59

Deebank wrote:
You are evidently out of touch with 'angry of Tunbridge Wells' who has to use the utterly fucking shambolic Southern Rail on a daily basis (as do many of my old friends back in Brighton and its environs) - and shambolic way before any industrial action kicked off to boot. Regardless of their political stripe they are praying for someone to sort out the mess - the favoured route seems to be re-nationalisation. It worked for the Eastern Mainline - a success under public ownership and thus sold back to their private sector mates by your friends in the tory party.


A pedant writes. Tunbridge Wells is on the SouthEastern line. Not that their service is much better, but the issues over the British rail network go much deeper than the binary perspective of public vs private ownership.

The fact remains that the infrastructure overhaul of our network is a project of such immense undertaking that I would be wary of a public initiative being able to manage it and not overspend in the billions. If Britain had a rail network of European quality like the Germans, then I think on the whole, public ownership would no doubt work. But the problem is that there are vast obstacles to be surmounted. And whilst I think public ownership of the rail network is probably a good thing, it might be that in order for the service to improve, private companies are often the way forward on this sort of thing on a piecemeal basis. Southern is a great example of how to run a service badly, but then again they are having to deal with the fact that since 2010 or so, as costs of living escalated enormously in London, more and more people are moving out of the capital to live elsewhere. Their train running is at maximum capacity (people in Brighton where services start often have to stand) and you can't just build more track and trains in this sort of situation.

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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 16:18

Toby wrote:
Deebank wrote:
You are evidently out of touch with 'angry of Tunbridge Wells' who has to use the utterly fucking shambolic Southern Rail on a daily basis (as do many of my old friends back in Brighton and its environs) - and shambolic way before any industrial action kicked off to boot. Regardless of their political stripe they are praying for someone to sort out the mess - the favoured route seems to be re-nationalisation. It worked for the Eastern Mainline - a success under public ownership and thus sold back to their private sector mates by your friends in the tory party.


A pedant writes. Tunbridge Wells is on the SouthEastern line. Not that their service is much better, but the issues over the British rail network go much deeper than the binary perspective of public vs private ownership.

The fact remains that the infrastructure overhaul of our network is a project of such immense undertaking that I would be wary of a public initiative being able to manage it and not overspend in the billions. If Britain had a rail network of European quality like the Germans, then I think on the whole, public ownership would no doubt work. But the problem is that there are vast obstacles to be surmounted. And whilst I think public ownership of the rail network is probably a good thing, it might be that in order for the service to improve, private companies are often the way forward on this sort of thing on a piecemeal basis. Southern is a great example of how to run a service badly, but then again they are having to deal with the fact that since 2010 or so, as costs of living escalated enormously in London, more and more people are moving out of the capital to live elsewhere. Their train running is at maximum capacity (people in Brighton where services start often have to stand) and you can't just build more track and trains in this sort of situation.


You seem to have forgotten that the network itself is still publicly-owned. My point is though that Eastern Mainline worked very well in Public hands - I interviewed their head of IT a few years ago as they were rolling out wifi on all their trains.
Anyway, instead of having to shovel money at their share-holders, a public service could use that money to invest - FFS we already subsidise these greedy fucking operators to the hilt as they transfer the cash to their rich owners to fund their caribbean island homes!
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 16:21

yomptepi wrote:Southern rail is not the entire network, and there is still a huge number of people who remember how the railways were under public ownership, and would never go back to those dreadful days.


I remember it well - seemed to work a fuck of a lot better than Southern Rail is - ask any current passenger what they think. There is a large lobby of SR users that are part of the Bring Back British Rail pressure group - they may even have started it!
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby borofan » 20 Mar 2017, 17:09

Corporate whore wrote:
borofan wrote:If he turns out as good an editor as he was a Chancellor, the Standard will be out of business in a fortnight.


You say that like it's a bad thing.

Just hoping...
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Corporate whore » 20 Mar 2017, 18:01

Deebank wrote:
Toby wrote:
Deebank wrote:
You are evidently out of touch with 'angry of Tunbridge Wells' who has to use the utterly fucking shambolic Southern Rail on a daily basis (as do many of my old friends back in Brighton and its environs) - and shambolic way before any industrial action kicked off to boot. Regardless of their political stripe they are praying for someone to sort out the mess - the favoured route seems to be re-nationalisation. It worked for the Eastern Mainline - a success under public ownership and thus sold back to their private sector mates by your friends in the tory party.


A pedant writes. Tunbridge Wells is on the SouthEastern line. Not that their service is much better, but the issues over the British rail network go much deeper than the binary perspective of public vs private ownership.

The fact remains that the infrastructure overhaul of our network is a project of such immense undertaking that I would be wary of a public initiative being able to manage it and not overspend in the billions. If Britain had a rail network of European quality like the Germans, then I think on the whole, public ownership would no doubt work. But the problem is that there are vast obstacles to be surmounted. And whilst I think public ownership of the rail network is probably a good thing, it might be that in order for the service to improve, private companies are often the way forward on this sort of thing on a piecemeal basis. Southern is a great example of how to run a service badly, but then again they are having to deal with the fact that since 2010 or so, as costs of living escalated enormously in London, more and more people are moving out of the capital to live elsewhere. Their train running is at maximum capacity (people in Brighton where services start often have to stand) and you can't just build more track and trains in this sort of situation.


You seem to have forgotten that the network itself is still publicly-owned. My point is though that Eastern Mainline worked very well in Public hands - I interviewed their head of IT a few years ago as they were rolling out wifi on all their trains.
Anyway, instead of having to shovel money at their share-holders, a public service could use that money to invest - FFS we already subsidise these greedy fucking operators to the hilt as they transfer the cash to their rich owners to fund their caribbean island homes!


As a regular user of the Eastern mainline, it didn't work well in public hands. The standard of cleanliness dropped, the number of cancellations increased, and it already had free WiFi. Until it was replaced by the 'improved' service that you had to pay for.

Since Virgin took over the standard of cleanliness has improved no end, although the cancellations and WiFi have stayed about the same.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Deebank » 20 Mar 2017, 18:39

I wouldn't mind putting up with a few empty crisp packets if it meant not shovelling piles of cash in Beardy's direction.
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Re: Should Osborne resign?

Postby Toby » 20 Mar 2017, 22:07