Sex Education in schools

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 2930
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Fonz » 02 Mar 2017, 17:14

Mrs Slider wrote:
martha wrote:The ethical slut defines slut as "a person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you."


That's interesting.

What do you mean by gender? How is enjoying sex and pleasure radical and courageous for men?


Believe it or not, sex and masturbation are still frowned upon in some communities. Women don't hold the monopoly on sexual hang ups you know ;)
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby The Great Defector » 02 Mar 2017, 17:38

Mrs Slider wrote:
I think it should start with women.

I don't think it makes you a bad person, but it is indicative of being male: you've never had a need to educate yourself. I'm not finger pointing; I've never had a need to educate myself about racial oppression, for instance.


I think it should start at home with the little things and superficial things for want of a better word. Like if the mother or father are a stay at home parent, it's not down to their gender but rather a joint decision between the two. So the kids don't think that's normal. That's a clumsy example, but it's the best I could come up with in my coffee-less state.
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 58061
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby sloopjohnc » 02 Mar 2017, 18:21

The Great Defector wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:
I think it should start with women.

I don't think it makes you a bad person, but it is indicative of being male: you've never had a need to educate yourself. I'm not finger pointing; I've never had a need to educate myself about racial oppression, for instance.


I think it should start at home with the little things and superficial things for want of a better word. Like if the mother or father are a stay at home parent, it's not down to their gender but rather a joint decision between the two. So the kids don't think that's normal. That's a clumsy example, but it's the best I could come up with in my coffee-less state.


I don't know how superficial a thing this is, but my wife never took my last name and wanted to maintain her own. I didn't care. I think that's says lots to kids about how parents view themselves and their roles.
Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. . .

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 18:25

Fonz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:
martha wrote:The ethical slut defines slut as "a person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you."


That's interesting.

What do you mean by gender? How is enjoying sex and pleasure radical and courageous for men?


Believe it or not, sex and masturbation are still frowned upon in some communities. Women don't hold the monopoly on sexual hang ups you know ;)


No but they hold the monopoly on being victims of sexual violence.

Sex often isn't nice.

But yes, I take your point. And you do engage with me and seem to take an interest in this stuff, which is appreciated.

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby The Great Defector » 02 Mar 2017, 18:26

sloopjohnc wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:
I think it should start with women.

I don't think it makes you a bad person, but it is indicative of being male: you've never had a need to educate yourself. I'm not finger pointing; I've never had a need to educate myself about racial oppression, for instance.


I think it should start at home with the little things and superficial things for want of a better word. Like if the mother or father are a stay at home parent, it's not down to their gender but rather a joint decision between the two. So the kids don't think that's normal. That's a clumsy example, but it's the best I could come up with in my coffee-less state.


I don't know how superficial a thing this is, but my wife never took my last name and wanted to maintain her own. I didn't care. I think that's says lots to kids about how parents view themselves and their roles.


Roles are changing for the better in terms of parents. In the example I gave, I guess I'm trying to say to get rid of the old school way of thinking, like woman stays home and looks after the kids while the man goes out and works.
If that does happen in a household, then kids should be told its a mutual decision, society didn't tell your parents to do it and it doesn't make the person staying home any better or worse.
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 18:28

What do people think is the definition of a woman?

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 18:28

The Great Defector wrote:If that does happen in a household, then kids should be told its a mutual decision, society didn't tell your parents to do it and it doesn't make the person staying home any better or worse.


Even if that's not the case?

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby The Great Defector » 02 Mar 2017, 18:33

Mrs Slider wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:If that does happen in a household, then kids should be told its a mutual decision, society didn't tell your parents to do it and it doesn't make the person staying home any better or worse.


Even if that's not the case?


Well I would assume if it's not the case, then the parents aren't really modern parents in this regard. If they're not, then I feel for the woman who thinks or is made to stay home. She shouldn't have to without a mutual discussion between her and her husband/partner. If he makes more money for example it would make more sense that he works. However this is a deeper discussion, in terms of times of work, collecting the children, schedules etc. Then the big one of women are still underpaid compared to men so chances are in most cases the man will always earn more and therefore will be working.
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
Minnie the Minx
funky thigh collector
Posts: 27837
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 16:00
Location: In the naughty North and in the sexy South

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Minnie the Minx » 02 Mar 2017, 18:35

Mrs Slider wrote:
Fonz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:
That's interesting.

What do you mean by gender? How is enjoying sex and pleasure radical and courageous for men?


Believe it or not, sex and masturbation are still frowned upon in some communities. Women don't hold the monopoly on sexual hang ups you know ;)


No but they hold the monopoly on being victims of sexual violence.

.


My understanding of 'having a monopoly' is that it means exclusive experience or control, which may not be how you are defining it here. Women might be the victims of sexual assault in an off-the scale way to men, but men are also victims of sexual violence.
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

Dr Markus wrote:
Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 25125
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby toomanyhatz » 02 Mar 2017, 18:52

Mrs Slider wrote:What do people think is the definition of a woman?


A tough enough question that maybe that's why people are avoiding it. :D

Let me answer your question with one of my own. Do you think it breaks down as simply as "a human equipped, from birth, with a vagina?" If so, I take your point but find it somewhat unsatisfying. I think there probably is some psychological basis for "feeling" like you were born with the wrong equipment. Not sure how to respond to that information, which is what makes it a tough question to answer. But I think it's a worthy discussion.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
.
1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

User avatar
K
Posts: 5869
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 21:10
Location: Under the watchful eye of the Clive police

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby K » 02 Mar 2017, 19:06

toomanyhatz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:What do people think is the definition of a woman?


A tough enough question that maybe that's why people are avoiding it. :D

Let me answer your question with one of my own. Do you think it breaks down as simply as "a human equipped, from birth, with a vagina?" If so, I take your point but find it somewhat unsatisfying. I think there probably is some psychological basis for "feeling" like you were born with the wrong equipment. Not sure how to respond to that information, which is what makes it a tough question to answer. But I think it's a worthy discussion.

Is it not chromosomal?
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 19:11

The Twat Patrol wrote:My understanding of 'having a monopoly' is that it means exclusive experience or control, which may not be how you are defining it here. Women might be the victims of sexual assault in an off-the scale way to men, but men are also victims of sexual violence.


Yes I meant the far greater degree of - typing too quickly and trying to multitask with kids.

I do of course know that. And male victims of sexual violence, in the vast majority of cases, are violated by other males.

Females committing acts of sexual violence against either sex is very uncommon.

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 21:43

toomanyhatz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:What do people think is the definition of a woman?


A tough enough question that maybe that's why people are avoiding it. :D

Let me answer your question with one of my own. Do you think it breaks down as simply as "a human equipped, from birth, with a vagina?" If so, I take your point but find it somewhat unsatisfying. I think there probably is some psychological basis for "feeling" like you were born with the wrong equipment. Not sure how to respond to that information, which is what makes it a tough question to answer. But I think it's a worthy discussion.


There is a perfectly workable and important definition in existence: adult human female.

Do you find that unsatisfying?

If you can give me anything else, which doesn’t involve a circular argument of purely subjective feelings, then have a crack. Because you do know that no two women feel the same? And feelings do not a woman make? And "I feel like a woman therefore I am a woman and also because I say so" is nonsensical?

I believe that reality is consensual. The meaning of a word is its use in our language. And if we are unable to articulate a concept/grouping/definition/socially understood meaning for something we lose the ability to discuss it – and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. As we are seeing in the currently unfolding Orwellian nightmare.

Mrs Slider
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Oct 2016, 19:46

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Mrs Slider » 02 Mar 2017, 21:44

K wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:What do people think is the definition of a woman?


A tough enough question that maybe that's why people are avoiding it. :D

Let me answer your question with one of my own. Do you think it breaks down as simply as "a human equipped, from birth, with a vagina?" If so, I take your point but find it somewhat unsatisfying. I think there probably is some psychological basis for "feeling" like you were born with the wrong equipment. Not sure how to respond to that information, which is what makes it a tough question to answer. But I think it's a worthy discussion.

Is it not chromosomal?


Yes.

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 2930
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Fonz » 02 Mar 2017, 21:50

Mrs Slider wrote:
Fonz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:
That's interesting.

What do you mean by gender? How is enjoying sex and pleasure radical and courageous for men?


Believe it or not, sex and masturbation are still frowned upon in some communities. Women don't hold the monopoly on sexual hang ups you know ;)


No but they hold the monopoly on being victims of sexual violence.

Sex often isn't nice.

But yes, I take your point. And you do engage with me and seem to take an interest in this stuff, which is appreciated.


I find our discussions challenging!
(In a good way)

:)
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 25125
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby toomanyhatz » 02 Mar 2017, 22:17

Mrs Slider wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:
Mrs Slider wrote:What do people think is the definition of a woman?


A tough enough question that maybe that's why people are avoiding it. :D

Let me answer your question with one of my own. Do you think it breaks down as simply as "a human equipped, from birth, with a vagina?" If so, I take your point but find it somewhat unsatisfying. I think there probably is some psychological basis for "feeling" like you were born with the wrong equipment. Not sure how to respond to that information, which is what makes it a tough question to answer. But I think it's a worthy discussion.


There is a perfectly workable and important definition in existence: adult human female.

Do you find that unsatisfying?

If you can give me anything else, which doesn’t involve a circular argument of purely subjective feelings, then have a crack. Because you do know that no two women feel the same? And feelings do not a woman make? And "I feel like a woman therefore I am a woman and also because I say so" is nonsensical?

I believe that reality is consensual. The meaning of a word is its use in our language. And if we are unable to articulate a concept/grouping/definition/socially understood meaning for something we lose the ability to discuss it – and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. As we are seeing in the currently unfolding Orwellian nightmare.


Well, that's what makes it complicated. And yes, I find "adult human female" unsatisfying. And not because of the words "adult" or "human." I don't think there's a lack of universality in how those words are used. Certainly the waters are being muddied. And it's not all just based on "feelings." Sometimes it's based on physicality, which has a lot more possible definitions than it used to. There is a medical basis for ambiguity both physically and psychologically. Where do you go with that? Is someone always the sex they are born with? And if not, is there a different post vs. pre-op definition?

I am only saying this as basis for discussion. I'm not taking a side. But if, as you say, meaning is based on use in our language, would you disagree that the meaning is changing?
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
.
1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

User avatar
Minnie the Minx
funky thigh collector
Posts: 27837
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 16:00
Location: In the naughty North and in the sexy South

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby Minnie the Minx » 02 Mar 2017, 22:37

toomanyhatz wrote:And yes, I find "adult human female" unsatisfying.


:(

Poor pillows.
7 year itch is a bitch.
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

Dr Markus wrote:
Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 25125
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby toomanyhatz » 02 Mar 2017, 22:42

The Twat Patrol wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:And yes, I find "adult human female" unsatisfying.


:(

Poor pillows.
7 year itch is a bitch.


Hyuk.

FWIW, we did joke about that quite a bit, as it was our 7th anniversary last year. Thought about posting Facebook pictures of us scratching ourselves, though we didn't actually follow through.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
.
1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

User avatar
martha
rambling rose
Posts: 5236
Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 17:41
Location: Self-imposed exile.

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby martha » 02 Mar 2017, 23:04

Mrs Slider wrote:
martha wrote:The ethical slut defines slut as "a person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you."


That's interesting.

What do you mean by gender? How is enjoying sex and pleasure radical and courageous for men?


Once again you're ascribing to me something that doesn't belong to me. I wasn't responsible for the inclusion of the word slut in the safe sex sluts organization I joined as a volunteer that had been founded four years earlier. Neither am I responsible for the definition given by the authors of the ethical slut, a book on polyamory which I did not write and have merely read and don't enjoy as much as I do other books on polyamory.

The meaning I ascribed to the word slut was that it was synonymous with Stud, or. a person who has had many sexual encounters and is knowledgeable of sex. There's nothing inherently pejorative in it to me.

As far as how I define gender that is an entirely different issue. I wrote my honor's thesis on the subject. And unlike the term slut it is far too involved a concept for me to engage adequately within the four to seven minutes I typically have available to spend on a music board whilst typing on my phone which incorrectly auto-corrects what I write into a mess of incoherant gobblydgook that has to be continuously retyped, but I'll try. I studied under Professor Judith Butler. Butler considers gender to be a construct...a performative act. I think my definition is not entirely out of alignment with hers. I would say that gender, as an objective natural thing, does not exist, rather it is completely a social construction, a fiction, a performative act.
--m.

BCB CUP 2017 is on!
viewforum.php?f=58

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 58061
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Sex Education in schools

Postby sloopjohnc » 02 Mar 2017, 23:08

martha wrote:Butler considers gender to be a construct ... I would say that gender, as an objective natural thing, does not exist, rather it is completely a social construction, a fiction, a performative act.


I can see that.
Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. . .


Return to “Nextdoorland”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Footy, Nick and 4 guests