Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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K
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Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby K » 16 Feb 2017, 15:28

Arron Banks, the biggest donor to Ukip, has said that he is “sick to death of hearing about” the Hillsborough stadium disaster in which 96 people died, describing it as an “awful accident” that “could have happened anywhere, anytime” in the 1980s. He also accused one of his critics of “milking a tragedy forever”.


He wrote
I'm sick to death of hearing about it. It was a disaster and that's it, not some sort of cultural happening

if a policemen opens a gate trying to help and makes a bad decision it's an accident. As for a cover up it was the 80's.

It was the 80's , I been at some matches that were squeezed beyond belief. This could have happened anywhere anytime.


I then read on Twitter (I know, but this is where it started) the following statement from someone
Tim, go on any football fans forum (bar liverpool) and you will see many more views in common with banks than media.


Is this true? I've never heard anyone speak about Hillsborough in this way. For myself and my friends, we see it as an awful tragedy that must forever be remembered, both for the 96 and for the hideous cover up that then followed.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Goat Boy » 16 Feb 2017, 15:32

For “sick of” read pissed off that Nuttalls lies about Hillsborough have damaged the party and he wishes it would go away.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Toby » 16 Feb 2017, 15:43

I'm not sick to death, no. Like Aberfan for those alive at the time, it was a tragedy and one that will remain in our consciousness for decades I imagine. The obvious reason it has an additional patina of anger for many is naturally because of the farcical and corrupt nature of some of the institutions involved in covering up the reason why it happened.

I think Banks is right to a certain extent in that it "could have happened anywhere" at any time during the 80's. Being a teenage boy and having visited a number of football grounds around the country in the latter half of the decade, I don't doubt this, although the fact that Hillsborough had fences was a huge factor in the number of deaths on the day. Terraces, the shambolic nature of crowd control by police and stewards, and the behaviour of large numbers of football fans in grounds were all pointing to a disaster at some point.

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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby K » 16 Feb 2017, 15:59

Would anyone agree with the statement that
...you will see many more views in common with banks than media.
:?:
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby The Great Defector » 16 Feb 2017, 16:00

I can get why some people would be fed up, but the argument I always make is that if the families want to do this then fine. There has been other tragedies in football, but different people react in different ways. This is the way families and supporters chose to react, to clear their names and to remember the day by not playing on the 15th. It doesn't make them any better or worse, it's just the way they deal with it.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby 'The Complimentor' » 16 Feb 2017, 16:03

K wrote:Would anyone agree with the statement that
...you will see many more views in common with banks than media.
:?:


No. Absolute bullshit.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby K » 16 Feb 2017, 16:10

The Great Defector wrote:I can get why some people would be fed up, but the argument I always make is that if the families want to do this then fine. There has been other tragedies in football, but different people react in different ways. This is the way families and supporters chose to react, to clear their names and to remember the day by not playing on the 15th. It doesn't make them any better or worse, it's just the way they deal with it.

Why would some people be fed up?
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby The Great Defector » 16 Feb 2017, 16:12

Just people hearing about it all the time, it doesn't make them bad people.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Goat Boy » 16 Feb 2017, 16:12

It was a pivotal event for me. As time went on and the scale of the cover up and the corruption involved was obvious it sadly confirmed all my worst suspicions and prejudices about the media and certain institutions. I suspect for people of my age this experience was not uncommon. On some level it made me "grow up"
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Diamond Dog » 16 Feb 2017, 17:23

When you read the book and see the documentary - it's impossible not be sympathetic and angered.

It isn't just that 96 people died - or that mistakes were made by the police.

It was that, within 15 minutes, those in charge in the police started the cover up - and continued that (with the help of supine Govt's) for decades afterwards, in the process besmirching the names of those that died, those that tried to help on the day, the other Liverpool fans and then - ultimately- the families of those that died. This was with the full backing of Governments and various media outlets too.

That's unforgivable and it's even more so in light of the fact that - despite eventually seeing a verdict of 'unlawful killing' given to all 96 victims - I don't believe one single police officer has been charged with any related offence since that verdict.

Their fight continues until that wrong is righted - and I think it's a fight we should all want to see won, no matter how long it takes.

The reason other fans feel 'sick to death' of Hillsborough is because they are ignorant of the facts, simple as that.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Deebank » 16 Feb 2017, 18:36

As DD says, if the victims hadn't been villified by the right wing press, the tories and their henchmen for decades before they got any sort of justice I'm sure it would have been more like Aberfan.

I think it's tremendously to the credit of the fans and families that they have never given up.

If it pisses off cunts like Banks then all the better.

I can't see one good reason why someone who was supposedly a witness to the disaster - and has had sigificant political influence - has never bothered to even mention it until he thought he could gain something from the association.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby John aka Josh » 16 Feb 2017, 20:46

At times like this I wish there were 'like' options for posts.







DD's & Deebank's posts get likes from me.


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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby 'The Complimentor' » 17 Feb 2017, 03:45

The Great Defector wrote:Just people hearing about it all the time, it doesn't make them bad people.


what the FUCK are you on about?
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Copehead » 17 Feb 2017, 07:28

The Great Defector wrote:Just people hearing about it all the time, it doesn't make them bad people.


Being tired of hearing about it doesn't make them bad people, it makes them people with little empathy who apparently can't filter the news they get.

Telling other people they are tired of hearing about does make them bad people. telling the national media they are "sick to death" of hearing about it makes them morally stunted cunts.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby fueryIre » 17 Feb 2017, 08:09

Deebank wrote:As DD says, if the victims hadn't been villified by the right wing press, the tories and their henchmen for decades before they got any sort of justice I'm sure it would have been more like Aberfan.

I think it's tremendously to the credit of the fans and families that they have never given up.

If it pisses off cunts like Banks then all the better.

I can't see one good reason why someone who was supposedly a witness to the disaster - and has had sigificant political influence - has never bothered to even mention it until he thought he could gain something from the association.


While arguably not as shameful as the post-Hillsborough cover up, there were definite attempts by the government-sanctioned National Coal Board to try and minimise their culpability for their negligence in allowing the build up and subsequent slapdash maintaining of the slag heaps at Aberfan.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby The Great Defector » 17 Feb 2017, 10:39

Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Just people hearing about it all the time, it doesn't make them bad people.


Being tired of hearing about it doesn't make them bad people, it makes them people with little empathy who apparently can't filter the news they get.

Telling other people they are tired of hearing about does make them bad people. telling the national media they are "sick to death" of hearing about it makes them morally stunted cunts.



I should have been more clearer, that this guy in the piece is a dick saying it to the media. Just because I can understand why some people might get fed up with hearing about it doesn't mean I agree with them. Two different things.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Jeemo » 17 Feb 2017, 10:57

Showing empathy for people without empathy. That's a new one.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby fueryIre » 17 Feb 2017, 12:41

K wrote:

Arron Banks, the biggest donor to Ukip, has said that he is “sick to death of hearing about” the Hillsborough stadium disaster in which 96 people died, describing it as an “awful accident” that “could have happened anywhere, anytime” in the 1980s. He also accused one of his critics of “milking a tragedy forever”.





Strange how he only started banging on about people being "sick of Hillsborough" after his dodgy mate Nutall was caught lying about having friends who died there.
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby K » 17 Feb 2017, 12:50

The Great Defector wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Just people hearing about it all the time, it doesn't make them bad people.


Being tired of hearing about it doesn't make them bad people, it makes them people with little empathy who apparently can't filter the news they get.

Telling other people they are tired of hearing about does make them bad people. telling the national media they are "sick to death" of hearing about it makes them morally stunted cunts.



I should have been more clearer, that this guy in the piece is a dick saying it to the media. Just because I can understand why some people might get fed up with hearing about it doesn't mean I agree with them. Two different things.

This idea of "fed up with hearing about it" carries with it the suggestion that Hillsborough is talked about on a regular basis. Whilst it was in the news during the recent inquest, and it's in the news again because of Nutall, it's not always in the news. People do not have the opportunity to be "fed up" with hearing about it, because it is not mentioned often. It probably should be mentioned more often, as it shines such a clear light on the evil of the establishment and government of the time, pus the fact that you know that if they could get away with similar stuff today they would...
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Re: Are you "sick to death" of Hillsborough?

Unread postby Pat O'Banton » 17 Feb 2017, 13:18

Toby wrote:I think Banks is right to a certain extent in that it "could have happened anywhere" at any time during the 80's. Being a teenage boy and having visited a number of football grounds around the country in the latter half of the decade, I don't doubt this, although the fact that Hillsborough had fences was a huge factor in the number of deaths on the day. Terraces, the shambolic nature of crowd control by police and stewards, and the behaviour of large numbers of football fans in grounds were all pointing to a disaster at some point.


But people aren't still going on about it because it was a disaster, they're going on about it because it was vast miscarriage of justice and cover-up from the very top down. It is not about "football" or "hooliganism" or even that much about "safety" - it's about how the Establishment, including both Tory and Labour governments and the South Yorkshire Police, closed ranks against the the very people they were supposed to represent and protect and the subsequent relentless fightback by the people of the City of Liverpool, both Red and Blue. Those fans were demonised (lied about!) by the Police and the Tory government and they did absolutely nothing wrong.

For what it's worth, in answer to Kal's initial question, the occasional (and I mean very occasional) young blert who expresses such feelings on Grand Old Team (Everton) forum get put straight pretty quickly.

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