Where are you on the political spectrum?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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K
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby K » 10 Feb 2017, 18:47

I can't imagine what it feels like to be right wing. Constantly sharpening your elbows to looks for the slightest advantage over anyone, but especially the "new". Constantly looking to conserve things, or preserve things to be more correct. Fearful of change because change may mean someone else, someone "unworthy" may get ahead of you in the queue.
But that's just me, typical libra.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Toby » 10 Feb 2017, 19:08

K wrote:I can't imagine what it feels like to be right wing. Constantly sharpening your elbows to looks for the slightest advantage over anyone, but especially the "new". Constantly looking to conserve things, or preserve things to be more correct. Fearful of change because change may mean someone else, someone "unworthy" may get ahead of you in the queue.
But that's just me, typical libra.



To me, deep down, it is to understand that cultures, language, religion and our way of life inherently create a separation in identities that cannot always be reconciled easily. That might be the inherent physical difference between men and women and how their rhythms play out in civic society, or between Christianity and Islam, or between someone from England or Scotland, or between someone who has inherited land from their family and someone who has nothing at all. It is to understand that at the heart of any discussion of these things are human beings, rather than people being provided a handy label by someone and being lumped into that discussion and stereotyped in that manner.

It also has the institution of family at the heart, rather than the state. And to me that just makes more sense.

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Still Baron » 10 Feb 2017, 19:13

I'm not sure I've ever been more baffled by something I've read here.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Feb 2017, 19:22

Toby wrote:It also has the institution of family at the heart, rather than the state. And to me that just makes more sense.


They don't have to be contradictory forces, though. And at heart, they're not. What the state SHOULD be doing (from my center-left perspective) is helping to preserve the family by leveling out some of the rough edges. Because leave everybody to their own libertarian devices and you don't end up with a meritocracy - you end up with an exploitocracy.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Toby » 10 Feb 2017, 19:29

toomanyhatz wrote:
Toby wrote:It also has the institution of family at the heart, rather than the state. And to me that just makes more sense.


They don't have to be contradictory forces, though. And at heart, they're not. What the state SHOULD be doing (from my center-left perspective) is helping to preserve the family by leveling out some of the rough edges. Because leave everybody to their own libertarian devices and you don't end up with a meritocracy - you end up with an exploitocracy.


I understand that. But when you talk about "levelling out of some of the rough edges", that in itself is a somewhat vague notion. There has to be a line drawn somewhere and the devil is in the detail.

Exploitation somewhere along the line in a capitalist society is inevitable - but it would happen with an all too powerful state just as it would happen if there was none.

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Feb 2017, 19:33

Yeah, that's the greatness of our respective country's built-in checks and balances - which our country's current president is running roughshod over.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby K » 10 Feb 2017, 20:21

Toby wrote:
K wrote:I can't imagine what it feels like to be right wing. Constantly sharpening your elbows to looks for the slightest advantage over anyone, but especially the "new". Constantly looking to conserve things, or preserve things to be more correct. Fearful of change because change may mean someone else, someone "unworthy" may get ahead of you in the queue.
But that's just me, typical libra.



It also has the institution of family at the heart, rather than the state. And to me that just makes more sense.

I was trying to be funny but actually the family as you put it is what I was getting at. It's only the one family, whereas the left put everyone's family at the heart.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 10 Feb 2017, 21:27

On a personal level, I'm pretty left. I don't personally give a shit about money and would love to live in a world not defined by it. My inclination is to be a big hippy about the issues of how we all live together.

But politically, I'm a much more centrist guy. I don't begrudge people who disagree with me their vote. Functionally I dislike movement politics and wish that all of the folks trying to deliver us to the pure form of their ideology would get less attention.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby PENK » 10 Feb 2017, 23:04

Social democrat, I think. I believe in equal rights and equal opportunities, in a meritocratic welfare state. I believe that the state should, funded by taxes which naturally target the better-off more than the poorest, run essential services like health, education, transport and so on; but that the people in charge should be qualified, experienced and willing to listen, and that there should be an effective system of checks and balances. Freedoms are essential and the most essential of all is the freedom to feel safe and happy, to live and work. I believe that migration is a human right but that it should be controlled and practical, making greater allowances for those fleeing danger or disaster.

Furthermore, I believe that Carthage must be destroyed.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Belle Lettre » 10 Feb 2017, 23:08

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Jimbo » 11 Feb 2017, 00:38

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: Functionally I dislike movement politics and wish that all of the folks trying to deliver us to the pure form of their ideology would get less attention.


Get yer status quo hogwash here!
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby kath » 11 Feb 2017, 01:18

often, these matters are a function of background.

lessee... spoilt, upper middle class childhood + skin-poor street adolescence + education of dubious quality + navy weefdom for a decade, in places where the rabid right spewed spittle regularly + academia, where the rabid left spewed spittle regularly + perpetual unemployment, where i sit and drool on myself as a hobby ÷ a lifetime's worth of brain-rotting recreational vices =

decidedly left and how-low-can-i-go.

p.s. i've left out the whole female part of the equation. everyone knows chicks suck at math.

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby kath » 11 Feb 2017, 01:24

NMB wrote:in the bit marked "be excellent to each other ".


oh, and this, too.

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby toomanyhatz » 11 Feb 2017, 01:35

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: Functionally I dislike movement politics and wish that all of the folks trying to deliver us to the pure form of their ideology would get less attention.


Get yer status quo hogwash here!


Thank you for providing such a great example of why I agree so heartily with Davey.

You fought the status quo - great. So now we have Trump. How's that working out so far?

Sorry to break it to you, but there is not going to be a President Kucinich or President Ungar.

Please feel free to point out Movement Politics' many successes. :roll:
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby Jimbo » 11 Feb 2017, 02:21

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: Functionally I dislike movement politics and wish that all of the folks trying to deliver us to the pure form of their ideology would get less attention.


Get yer status quo hogwash here!


Thank you for providing such a great example of why I agree so heartily with Davey.

You fought the status quo - great. So now we have Trump. How's that working out so far?

Sorry to break it to you, but there is not going to be a President Kucinich or President Ungar.

Please feel free to point out Movement Politics' many successes. :roll:


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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby The Write Profile » 11 Feb 2017, 03:40

What I can't understand is why healthcare seems to be such a divisive issue in the United States. Nearly every other Western World economy has Government-mandated, single-payer healthcare in some form or other (in England it's manifested under the NHS, in New Zealand it's through insurance schemes such as ACC and an independent Government-funded drug buyer called Pharmac). I mean, Obama's Affordable Healthcare Act is a significant step in the right direction, but surely it shouldn't be so hard. Or are the health insurance companies in the US so powerful as a lobby group as to quash any moves to a fairer healthcare system?
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby toomanyhatz » 11 Feb 2017, 04:09

The Write Profile wrote: are the health insurance companies in the US so powerful as a lobby group as to quash any moves to a fairer healthcare system?


Bingo.

Americans as a whole worship the free economy - it's how Trump succeeded. The most frightening thing I heard - I mean, besides him being elected - was that in a poll on what supporters admired in each of the candidates, the overwhelming leader for Trump admirers was "success in personal business." Putting aside my (and a lot of people's) opinion that his success is largely an illusion, his first month has certainly proven that running a country is nothing like running a business. But Americans are saddled with this unfortunate notion that profiteering is in the public interest. The three things that should never, ever be the domain of profiteers - public health, the military and the criminal justice system - are the ones most rife with them. How to you combat that? IMHO, good old regulation. We need more of it, not less. The way that the American public has been convinced that just the opposite is true is one of the biggest cons ever unleashed on the public.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby The Write Profile » 11 Feb 2017, 04:19

Thanks. It was just that the opponents of Obama's Affordable Care Act seemed (from this distance) hysterical towards what is actually, in its current form, an insurance company enabling piece of legislation. It was if the opponents couldn't brook even the mildest form of regulation. To your three things that should never, ever be the domain of profiteers, I'd also add education and, somewhat controversially housing. There needs to be Government involvement in that in a form of some building programme so to check the inherent rapaciousness of property developers. Every working person deserves the opportunity of owning their own home at a reasonable price. How to get there is the difficult part.
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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby joels344 » 11 Feb 2017, 04:26

According to the political compass test, I'm a center-right libertarian. Which makes sense because most of my political influences are from a libertarian perspective (classical liberalism; not necessarily the traditional definition of libertarianism). That being said, the compass test could be vastly improved and updated. The questions are outdated and often presented in a loaded manner.

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?

Postby toomanyhatz » 11 Feb 2017, 04:35

I meant to include education, actually. The demonization of teacher's unions (and unions in general, for that matter) is another thing that has influenced the public in a way that angers and bewilders me.
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