President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Mike Boom
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Mike Boom » 11 Nov 2020, 13:17

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/11/texas-lt-gov-offers-up-1-million-information-voter-fraud/6246466002/

New from the man who was willing to sacrifice the life of YOUR Grandad and Grandma for the sake of re opening the economy, Texas Lt Gov Dan Patrick is now offering 1 million dollars for fraud information and tips.

How long before Trump and his minions actually create some sort kind of voter fraud incident?
Im expecting any moment a Fox news story about how they have discovered (had time to manufacture) a case.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Dr. Baron » 11 Nov 2020, 16:07

I agree with kath that I'm not worried about the military brass backing him, but I do worry about national security issues that could arise in the next two months with the newbie loyalists he's installing.

I'm increasingly concerned that the administration is really serious about pushing this. I haven't spent the time researching the exact deadlines, but I think the endgame of the litigation (in addition to its propaganda purposes) is to keep the votes from being final, preventing the secretaries of state for the contested states from certifying the results, and throwing the results to the State legislatures (many of which are controlled by Republicans) to choose their electors. I don't really think this would work, and if the PA, GA, or AZ legislature went against the popular vote, I should think there will be massive civil unrest, but it's a little chilling to think that they're really going for this. But it also makes sense. Trump can't accept the concept of defeat and has nothing to lose.
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kath
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 17:28

i think yer right, baron. i don't know the actual rules or deadlines myself, but they really may be trying it. i didn't notice til a lil while ago that sec. of state pompeo (that bloated, soulless ratfucque from hell) was asked yesterday by a reporter if he would support a peaceful transition for biden, and pompeo said, "i support a smooth transition for president trump's second term." some people were tryin to say it was a clumsy attempt at a joke (don't they always say that??) but pompeo actually brought up electors in his longer answer.

scary.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 17:46

and just in case anyone wanted an extra dose of crazy over at DOD:

"A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired."

trump is beyond insane. the lashing out by firing has only just begun.

p.s. watching him at arlington on this veteran's day with his lil play-acting salute makes me sick. i cannot wait for him to be out.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 18:13

so here's sen. chris murphy from connecticut, speaking before congress:

"There's an epidemic of delusion that is spreading out from the WH & infecting the entire Republican Party in the wake of this election, & it presents a real threat to this country. Trump didn't win the election. Every single one of my colleagues knows this.

He's not conceding b/c he believes there's a chance he can remain as POTUS without having won the election, so long as Republicans are willing to stick w/him step by step- & so far there's no evidence that congressional Republicans are ever going to step away from Trump.

This may sort of seem like a side show now to the inevitability of a transfer of power, but what's next? What if President Trump asks Republicans here to contest the selection of electors?... will you do it?

The secretary of state was asked today if he thought there'd be a smooth transition of power to the winner of the election ... he said 'there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.' Listen -- these guys aren't playing.

I've watched as Republicans have engaged in a withering assault on the public sector. The whole idea from Republicans has been that govt is illegitimate by its very nature & can't do anything to help you or solve your problems... don't assume democracy can survive this.

The president is delusional. There was no voter fraud. He lost. The American people, by a large margin, chose Joe Biden as President of the United States. And this delusion is not a quaint side show. It's an assault on our democracy."

to the question of "will you do it?" of course, they will. if they can get away with it, yep.

(starts singin steely dan... i foresee terrible trouble, but i stay here just the saaaaame...)

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Matt Wilson » 11 Nov 2020, 18:31

I'm not that worried about it. We all knew he would do something like this. The lawsuits, public proclamations of fraud, complete inability to concede defeat, etc. all par for the course from a narcissist who can't comprehend that he's anything less than great. The states which he is questioning can have their recounts, if the margin is there he won't even have to pay for it, but if said margin isn't, there's no way Trump will pay for a recount. There really isn't anything he can do to change what's going to happen on January 20th. If he wants to make a public spectacle of himself, then he's free to do so. Republicans have enjoyed a succession of power plays for the last four years, they're used to it, and not about to let it go without a fight.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 18:50

Matt Wilson wrote:I'm not that worried about it. We all knew he would do something like this. The lawsuits, public proclamations of fraud, complete inability to concede defeat, etc. all par for the course from a narcissist who can't comprehend that he's anything less than great. The states which he is questioning can have their recounts, if the margin is there he won't even have to pay for it, but if said margin isn't, there's no way Trump will pay for a recount. There really isn't anything he can do to change what's going to happen on January 20th. If he wants to make a public spectacle of himself, then he's free to do so. Republicans have enjoyed a succession of power plays for the last four years, they're used to it, and not about to let it go without a fight.


all of that crap, i am not really worried about, either.

but i am specifically worried about what the baron brought up...

"... I think the endgame of the litigation (in addition to its propaganda purposes) is to keep the votes from being final, preventing the secretaries of state for the contested states from certifying the results, and throwing the results to the State legislatures (many of which are controlled by Republicans) to choose their electors..."

like baron, i don't know if this could work. i probably should look into how it works; that is, if secretaries of state *can* be prevented from certifying the results. i mean, it's a big deal. but i just don't know enough, so i'll worry in the meantime. after all, what i need is a few more gray hairs and an even more compromised liver. yeehaw.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Belle Lettre » 11 Nov 2020, 18:52

I've been worrying about this all day :(
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby never/ever » 11 Nov 2020, 20:19

Things are not going well for Trump’s attorneys when their tweets and press conferences are subjected to legal standards.

In a case in which Trump lawyers argued they weren’t allowed to observe counting... Judge : “Are your observers in the counting room?” Trump lawyer: "There's a non-zero number of people in the room.”

Another case in which Trump lawyers sought to discard 592 ballots... Judge: “I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” Trump attorney: “To my knowledge at present, no.”

In a case to stop counting because a poll worker said they heard someone say ballots were being backdated... Judge: “I’m still trying to understand why this isn’t hearsay.” Trump lawyer: “Well, it’s, it, I –“

In a case in which the Trump campaign cited supposed evidence that 53 late ballots may have been predated so they could be counted... Judge:”the Court finds that there is no evidence that the ballots referenced in the petition were received after 7:00 p.m. on election day, thereby making those ballots invalid.”
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 11 Nov 2020, 20:59

Tonight we are having dinner and drinks with the only two people in our ‘bubble’ - we haven’t seen them since Biden was elected. Champagne, hugs and a big squealing cuddle are predicted! I’m gonna feel ghastly in the morning!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Lord Rother » 11 Nov 2020, 21:04

(Gloria Borger Chief Political Analyst CNN) “Given what we know about Donald Trump, his refusal to accept loss as he begins a revenge purge of his perceived enemies should not surprise us. He is a tiny man, devoid of moral fiber and character, defined only by his self-interest.

The idea of losing is beyond him, unless he can blame a rigged election. We knew that, too.
What we did not know -- and what is playing out now -- is that, in the waning days of his presidency, his courtiers would all pay homage to the fallen king as he ransacks the government on his way out by firing key public servants like the defense secretary whom he considers disloyal, further rattling national security by refusing to share intelligence briefings with the incoming president, and weaponizing the Justice Department to look for mass voter fraud where none exists.

As he sits in the Oval Office, you've got to wonder: What is the President actually thinking? Is he concerned about his followers? About democracy? About his legacy?

Nah. He's thinking about himself, of course. One source who knows the President well makes this case: "He's not worried about the Republican Party. He's worried about how he can commercialize and monetize all of this."

Ah, of course. Post-election King Trump rallies across America (with paid attendance no doubt). Can't you just imagine the former president claiming his rallies are bigger than Oprah's motivational gatherings? A TV show! A big book deal, worth millions! (He'll want more than Obama, but won't get it.) Another run in 2024!

If he's no longer the king, he'll be the kingmaker. All GOP politicians will have to kiss the ring if they are to succeed. After all, he has a 70 million-plus following, and that ain't beans. Only a small handful Republican senators have acknowledged Joe Biden as President-elect. Two Georgia Republicans vying for Senate seats dutifully asked for a GOP election official in the state to resign because he had not done enough, in their words, to deliver an "honest and transparent" election in which Trump was not crowned the victor.

And worst of all, the secretary of state, occupying a once vaunted position, goes to the podium to declare the transition will be peacefully made -- to Trump. We know he wants to be president, and wants Trump's blessing -- but this way?

Luckily, history will record all of this.

Enough about (lack of) principles. Getting back to principal, which is always Topic A in Trumpworld. Right now, though, he's raising money allegedly to fight the inevitably fruitless court battles on some imagined voter fraud. But look at the small print: The money also seeds his newly-established political action committee. So while he's telling his voters he's fighting to stay, he's also looking for way to fund his future endeavors when he leaves. Always looking for a way to find a buck.

If there's an analogy to this way of leaving the White House in US history, it doesn't come to mind. There have been disagreements over counts, sure. (And the Election 2000 recount was about 537 votes in one state, and not fanciful claims of fraud nationwide.)

After all, this is a democracy, not a kleptocracy -- in which leaders simply try to loot their citizens. Keep that in mind. But it still might be a good idea to keep an eye on the President's bulging pockets as he exits the back door.”

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 21:24

Belle Lettre wrote:I've been worrying about this all day :(


it will (ultimately) be okay. even if it comes to civil unrest. we all hope it doesn't come to that, but i truly think it will come out okay. i know i am crazy, but i'm not that crazy. we are lookin at last-gasp tactics. however much damage happens, and yes, it can be major, it is still what it be.

yes, i have gone from scared to lookin for the chainsaw. always best to be prepared.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Six String » 11 Nov 2020, 21:24

Minnie the Minx wrote:Tonight we are having dinner and drinks with the only two people in our ‘bubble’ - we haven’t seen them since Biden was elected. Champagne, hugs and a big squealing cuddle are predicted! I’m gonna feel ghastly in the morning!


Rebecca and I are joining in spirit. Coincidently we were getting together for dinner, cribbage and a drinking session so we’ll raise a Texas size toast to you and yours.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 21:26

never/ever wrote:Things are not going well for Trump’s attorneys when their tweets and press conferences are subjected to legal standards.

In a case in which Trump lawyers argued they weren’t allowed to observe counting... Judge : “Are your observers in the counting room?” Trump lawyer: "There's a non-zero number of people in the room.”

Another case in which Trump lawyers sought to discard 592 ballots... Judge: “I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” Trump attorney: “To my knowledge at present, no.”

In a case to stop counting because a poll worker said they heard someone say ballots were being backdated... Judge: “I’m still trying to understand why this isn’t hearsay.” Trump lawyer: “Well, it’s, it, I –“

In a case in which the Trump campaign cited supposed evidence that 53 late ballots may have been predated so they could be counted... Judge:”the Court finds that there is no evidence that the ballots referenced in the petition were received after 7:00 p.m. on election day, thereby making those ballots invalid.”


it's true the court cases are laughable. yep. there is simply no evidence.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 11 Nov 2020, 21:26

Six String wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:Tonight we are having dinner and drinks with the only two people in our ‘bubble’ - we haven’t seen them since Biden was elected. Champagne, hugs and a big squealing cuddle are predicted! I’m gonna feel ghastly in the morning!


Rebecca and I are joining in spirit. Coincidently we were getting together for dinner, cribbage and a drinking session so we’ll raise a Texas size toast to you and yours.


I read ‘cribbage’ as ‘cabbage’ and thought ‘that’s my kind of evening!’
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 21:33

Minnie the Minx wrote:Tonight we are having dinner and drinks with the only two people in our ‘bubble’ - we haven’t seen them since Biden was elected. Champagne, hugs and a big squealing cuddle are predicted! I’m gonna feel ghastly in the morning!


i will toast y'all, all by myself as i am.

this is gonna sound strange to all normal sane people, but i am rarely ever alone. yeah, i go stir crazy, yeah, i miss so many folk so much, yeah, i've always been sociable and enjoyed people around me... however, the truth is, the amount of times in my life i've been completely alone are so rare.

and i am alone now and reallllly fucquin enjoying it, mwhahaha. (still posting, tho. so sad for me. although y'all aint exactly sittin in my den, puttin yer eyes on my hair now, are y'all?)

the point: have a great evening. time for me to crank sumthin extremely loud and do the same. cheers, everybody.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 11 Nov 2020, 21:34

kath wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:Tonight we are having dinner and drinks with the only two people in our ‘bubble’ - we haven’t seen them since Biden was elected. Champagne, hugs and a big squealing cuddle are predicted! I’m gonna feel ghastly in the morning!


i will toast y'all, all by myself as i am.

this is gonna sound strange to all normal sane people, but i am rarely ever alone. yeah, i go stir crazy, yeah, i miss so many folk so much, yeah, i've always been sociable and enjoyed people around me... however, the truth is, the amount of times in my life i've been completely alone are so rare.

and i am alone now and reallllly fucquin enjoying it, mwhahaha. (still posting, tho. so sad for me. although y'all aint exactly sittin in my den, puttin yer eyes on my hair now, are y'all?)

the point: have a great evening. time for me to crank sumthin extremely loud and do the same. cheers, everybody.


Cheers indeed, dear Kath! We will certainly raise a glass to Les, Rebecca, you and yours x
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby kath » 11 Nov 2020, 23:14

okayyyy, so sure, i'm still obsessed. leave me alone. i am cranking heep again. best watch yerselfs.

but i am feelin a bit better about the whole twisted elector thing, and here's why, (this wapo article is from greg sargent, one of those people i've brought up before. i consider him exceedingly trustworthy.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/11/no-hail-mary-plan-trump-isnt-going-work/

in case there's a firewall, i will try the cut-n-paste, even though i shouldn't be operating heavy machinery like a laptop at present.

"By now, it has become overwhelmingly obvious that President Trump will lose most or all his court battles over the phantom voter fraud he’s alleging. But there’s still a scenario for Trump that is rattling around the Internet, one that’s widely called a “Hail Mary."

What happens if, say, the GOP legislature in Pennsylvania goes rogue and appoints a separate pro-Trump slate of electors for the electoral college, in defiance of the state’s popular vote?

The attorney general of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, has shot down this idea. In a statement, he flatly noted that “there is no legal mechanism” for the state legislature “to act alone and appoint electors. None.”

That sounds pretty definitive. For a fuller picture, I reached out to Shapiro’s office. And they walked me through the legal reasons that scenario is preposterously far-fetched.

First, note that GOP state legislators themselves have recently been saying that they have no role in this process. And it’s true: By state law, they do not.

As Shapiro’s office explained to me, the relevant state law assigns the role of certifying the final statewide vote count to the Secretary of State, who is a Democrat. And it assigns the role of certifying the electors chosen by that statewide vote count to the governor, who is also a Democrat.

To oversimplify, the state legislature played its role in all this long ago when it passed the law designating this process as the “manner” by which the electors are chosen. The Constitution assigns to each state the authority to “appoint” its electors in a “manner” that the legislature “may direct.”

In all states, legislatures have “directed” that electors are appointed in accordance with the popular vote by passing laws to that effect.

And in Pennsylvania, the state legislature, by passing its law, has already assigned the role of certifying the electors to the governor.

That’s what Shapiro — and GOP state legislators themselves — mean when they say the state legislature has no role in acting alone and appointing electors at this point. It doesn’t.

So far so good, right?

Well, as Andrew Prokop notes, those state legislators have been hedging a bit on this lately, because they’re under heavy pressure that will surely ratchet up once Trump loses more rounds in court.

So what would happen if the state legislature did decide to send in its own slate of electors?

It’s important to note just how rogue this would be. It would be in defiance of not just the will of the voters, but also of its own law designating the governor as the party who certifies the electors on the basis of the popular vote.

This alone is highly unlikely at best, especially with the very clear popular vote outcome we saw there. And if they did do this, it probably wouldn’t stand up in court.

But let’s say that it did hold up in court. What would happen in essence is that two separate slates of electors would arrive in Congress, one for President-elect Joe Biden (certified by the governor, in accordance with the state’s popular vote outcome) and one for Trump (certified by the state legislature and not in accordance with the popular vote).

At that point, each chamber of Congress would deliberate over the two slates of electoral votes. It’s possible, as Edward Foley notes, that the Senate actually could end up picking the Biden slate if just a handful of GOP senators who have already declared Biden the winner joined Democrats in doing so. That would give it to Biden.

But let’s say the Senate picked the Trump slate, and the Democratic House picked the Biden slate. There’s one reading of federal law that holds that the slate picked by the governor is the operative one in such a situation. That, too, would give it to Biden.

However, there’s still another reading of federal law that holds that in this scenario, both slates would get tossed out.

The two chambers would probably deadlock over which interpretation is right, with the House picking the first and the Senate the second. But even if the House relented and allowed the second interpretation, neither Trump nor Biden would get Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes. Biden still wins, because he’d still have 270 electoral votes anyway, with just Nevada and Arizona, and well over 270 if he holds Georgia, as expected.

For Trump to win in this scenario, numerous states with GOP legislatures would all have to do this extraordinarily rogue act, enough of them to pull Biden down below 270 electoral college votes (this would kick the election in a different sense over to the House, where the relative number of state delegations would decide it).

But for this utterly crazy scenario to work, on top of all that the House would have to relent to that second interpretation in all these cases. Needless to say, that won’t happen. (For the detailed look at this scenario, see this Foley piece.)

Everyone absolutely should remain on alert, to be clear. But all this is absurdly, monumentally implausible."

i feel better. it may not last, but i take every groovy moment i can get. mwhaha.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Minnie the Minx » 12 Nov 2020, 00:01

Best of all, the friend that I’m going to see became a US citizen to vote against Trump, the same as me. Very sweet indeed!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 12 Nov 2020, 03:48

And from Greg Sargent's colleague Dana Milbank:

President Trump isn’t really trying to overturn the election. He’s simply running one more scam before he leaves office that would enable him to enrich himself.

That’s the way it appears, at least, from the scores of fundraising emails his campaign has sent out since the election. He seems to be asking for funds to challenge the election, but the fine print shows that the money could let him line his own coffers. The tin-pot-dictator routine looks more as if it’s about passing the tin cup.

“They’re trying to STEAL this Election,” declared one such Trump campaign fundraising missive Wednesday afternoon. from “Donald J. Trump, President of the United States.” “I promise you my team is fighting the clock to DEFEND the integrity of this Election, but we cannot do it alone. We need EVERY Patriot, like YOU, to step up and make sure we have the resources to keep going. … Please contribute ANY AMOUNT RIGHT NOW to DEFEND the Election.”

But at the provided link to the “OFFICIAL ELECTION DEFENSE FUND,” the legalese at the end says something rather different:

Sixty percent of the contribution, up to $5,000, goes to “Save America,” Trump’s newly created leadership PAC. And 40 percent of the contribution up to $35,500, goes to the Republican National Committee’s operating account, its political (not legal) fund.

Only after reaching the first maximum would a single penny go to Trump’s “Recount Account,” and only after reaching the second maximum would a penny go to the RNC’s legal account.

“It’s a straight-up bait and switch,” Paul S. Ryan, the vice president of policy and litigation at Common Cause, tells me. Such email solicitations target small donors, so for the “overwhelming majority of people contributing … none of their money will end up in recount accounts” or be used for otherwise challenging the election.

Rather, it will be used to extend Trump’s influence over the RNC during the Biden presidency and to build up his leadership PAC, which amounts to a “slush fund” for Trump’s personal use. “There is no limit to how much Donald Trump can pay himself or any member of his family under ‘Save America,’” Ryan notes.

Earlier versions of the “election defense fund” email solicitations indicated the funds were to be used to retire Trump’s campaign debt. “Presumably he raised enough to retire that debt," says Ryan, "and he’s building this new slush fund.”

Should we be surprised?

Trump has used the presidency itself for self-enrichment, so there’s no reason to think an election defeat would stop him. He has funneled vast amounts of taxpayer dollars and political supporters’ funds to his hotels, golf clubs and various properties around the world. Over the years, he has used his charity for self-benefit, he has had favorable treatment by foreign governments, and he has had hundreds of millions in debt forgiven by creditors.

As The Post’s David Fahrenthold wrote last month, Trump’s properties have billed taxpayers at least $2.5 million for such things as: $7,000 for a dinner, $6,000 for flowers, $17,000 monthly for a cottage, up to $650 a night for hotel rooms, $1,000 for drinks for the White House staff and even $3 for drinking water.

The president isn’t the only one in Trump world apparently misleading well-intentioned contributors.

Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, faces federal charges that he defrauded contributors who thought they were giving money to build a wall on the Mexican border. Arrested on a Chinese billionaire’s yacht, he’s accused of stealing more than $1 million from funds donated to “We Build the Wall.”

But the contest-the-election scam is a dangerous game. Trump’s refusal to cooperate with the Biden transition jeopardizes national security by leaving the United States vulnerable in a way the 9/11 Commission specifically warned about. It’s further discrediting the institutions of American democracy (the Trump-backing Republican secretary of state of Georgia now faces calls for his resignation from fellow Republican officeholders and death threats for simply doing his job). And it’s further paralyzing the country by falsely convincing millions of Trump supporters that something untoward happened in the election.

The New York Times reported that it contacted election officials in all 50 states and not one, Democrat or Republican, found evidence that fraud or irregularities played a role in the election outcome.

The Post reports that the administration is 0 for 6 with its fraud claims so far, as courts reject the frivolous and unsubstantiated allegations.

Republican lawmakers, led by the shameless Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (S.C.) and Senate provocateur-in-residence Ted Cruz (Tex.), are indulging Trump’s nonsense claims, regardless of the harm to national security and confidence in U.S. elections.

And in doing so, they’re helping to scam their own supporters into further enriching Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/11/trumps-election-challenge-looks-like-scam-line-his-pockets/?utm_campaign=wp_follow_dana_milbank&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_danamilbank
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