President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Snarfyguy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 30 Jan 2019, 15:10

The Peculiar Logic of the Trump-Russia Scandal Deniers

Six Trump campaign associates so far have been indicted for or pleaded guilty to a wide array of federal crimes. And this is before some of the best-known episodes in the Russia scandal, like the Trump Tower meeting and the president’s efforts to dictate false statements about it, have faced any legal sanction. Yet even as the legal net has widened, a devoted band of defenders has promoted an energetic defense of the president that has never wavered in its conviction of his essential innocence in the Russia matter...

Their method for dismissing every incremental advance in the investigation is the same. First, they examine every new charge in isolation, ignoring the broader pattern of behavior in which it is contained. Then they assume the most innocent possible interpretation for each isolated fact, further assuming that no other incriminating evidence will emerge. It is not clear whether they have decided to act like lawyers for Trump, presenting the most plausible defense they can muster, or if they simply trust he would never do something like collude with Russia, and are working backward from their heartfelt presumption of innocence. Either way, they have developed a method that allows them to acknowledge every new piece of incriminating evidence without in any way altering their confidence that the investigation is going nowhere...

The Trump defenders’ ability to disregard the lying may be their greatest act of credulity. In every twist and turn of the Russia investigation, Trump and his associates have been found to have lied — to Congress, to the FBI, and to the public. Somehow this pattern of behavior has not registered on the right as suspicious in any way. It is just a disconnected sequence of events, the same thing that keeps happening for no apparent reason.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ ... -hunt.html
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 30 Jan 2019, 15:40

Snarfyguy wrote:The Peculiar Logic of the Trump-Russia Scandal Deniers

Six Trump campaign associates so far have been indicted for or pleaded guilty to a wide array of federal crimes. And this is before some of the best-known episodes in the Russia scandal, like the Trump Tower meeting and the president’s efforts to dictate false statements about it, have faced any legal sanction. Yet even as the legal net has widened, a devoted band of defenders has promoted an energetic defense of the president that has never wavered in its conviction of his essential innocence in the Russia matter...

Their method for dismissing every incremental advance in the investigation is the same. First, they examine every new charge in isolation, ignoring the broader pattern of behavior in which it is contained. Then they assume the most innocent possible interpretation for each isolated fact, further assuming that no other incriminating evidence will emerge. It is not clear whether they have decided to act like lawyers for Trump, presenting the most plausible defense they can muster, or if they simply trust he would never do something like collude with Russia, and are working backward from their heartfelt presumption of innocence. Either way, they have developed a method that allows them to acknowledge every new piece of incriminating evidence without in any way altering their confidence that the investigation is going nowhere...

The Trump defenders’ ability to disregard the lying may be their greatest act of credulity. In every twist and turn of the Russia investigation, Trump and his associates have been found to have lied — to Congress, to the FBI, and to the public. Somehow this pattern of behavior has not registered on the right as suspicious in any way. It is just a disconnected sequence of events, the same thing that keeps happening for no apparent reason.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ ... -hunt.html


Holy shit is this weird but the weirdest part is the bit about an awww, "heartfelt presumption of innocence." Uh, isn't that's how America rolls?

As you often say and I have no choice but agree, we'll just have to wait for the final report. But do you really think Trump could be an asset of Russia, like a double agent? What has Trump done that was beneficial to Russia that he hasn't done for the UK or Israel or Kansas? Actually he's been more belligerent towards Russia than any other place since this Venezuela thing. What your NYMAG bit leaves out is the most popular thinking from Russiagate deniers and that is this is a wedge to get rid of Trump because Hillary was supposed by one and all to be the President. The establishment was ready and expecting another Clinton in the WH. News Flash! If Hillary had won Russia would still be the goat only without the Trump connection. She called Putin Hitler. We are not defending Trump. We are defending the world. We'd be protesting against the US establishment attack on Russia with Clinton in office as well.

Oh, and if the number of Trump officials indicted and charged so far is indicative of something keep the quote below in mind.

"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."
from p. 184,Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years, by Haynes Johnson, (1991, Doubleday),
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 30 Jan 2019, 16:39

Yeah, chill out, Snarf. It's not like the President is secretly meeting with Putin without any advisers or translators or media present to talk about God knows what that could affect every person in the country.

Oh, wait, he is.

https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/ ... 20-ft-note
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 30 Jan 2019, 17:02

Count Machuki wrote:Yeah, chill out, Snarf. It's not like the President is secretly meeting with Putin without any advisers or translators or media present to talk about God knows what that could affect every person in the country.

Oh, wait, he is.

https://www.vox.com/2019/1/29/18202515/ ... 20-ft-note


At least he didn’t try to hide it and was up front and open with everyone about it.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 30 Jan 2019, 17:17

And the clock starts now when we see the retraction/correction of this story.

I appreciate that they are worried about "the optics," cutting Trump some slack.

BYW, Baron, was it illegal for him to talk to Putin.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Copehead » 30 Jan 2019, 18:03

Jimbo wrote:BYW, Baron, was it illegal for him to talk to Putin.


Surely that depends entirely on what was said, somethings would most definitely be illegal and possibly be capital offences in the US, The Baron would probably know if treason is still punishable by death in the US.

He certainly went to great lengths to make sure no one knew what he was talking to Putin about didn't he?

My guess is that he was begging Putin not to divulge what he has on him and saying he'd do anything to prevent that coming out, but it is just a guess.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 30 Jan 2019, 18:09

Copehead wrote:
My guess is that he was begging Putin not to divulge what he has on him and saying he'd do anything to prevent that coming out, but it is just a guess.


Did he freaking kill somebody or something? Or just all the continued financial malfeasance? Even that scandalous stuff in the Steele Dossier is pretty tame by today's libertine standards (not my bag, but, hell, it takes all sorts).

Just thinking out loud, here, but if they've got something on him it's gotta be a humdinger.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Copehead » 30 Jan 2019, 18:20

Count Machuki wrote:
Copehead wrote:
My guess is that he was begging Putin not to divulge what he has on him and saying he'd do anything to prevent that coming out, but it is just a guess.


Did he freaking kill somebody or something? Or just all the continued financial malfeasance? Even that scandalous stuff in the Steele Dossier is pretty tame by today's libertine standards (not my bag, but, hell, it takes all sorts).

Just thinking out loud, here, but if they've got something on him it's gotta be a humdinger.


I doubt it is anything more than the fact they have him by the financial goalies and they have a bit of pervy sex on tape.
But the former would strike right at the heart of his whole image, which he probably believes himself.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 30 Jan 2019, 18:52

I think it could just be the fact that he's been Russia's butt-boy for a good long time. this could have been a big problem a while ago.
the American right has only recently come around to being open about their Putin man-crush. they spent most of Obama's time in office praising Vlad in order to disparage O.

I think there's a good bet that they've got a pocket full of I.O.U's and expect him to act in their interests. stranger things have happened.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 30 Jan 2019, 19:32

Jimbo wrote:BYW, Baron, was it illegal for him to talk to Putin.


Obviously, in most situations, it’s not illegal to speak to another human. The contents of the conversation, on the other hand, could be criminal. I guess we’ll never know.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 30 Jan 2019, 19:44

Sneelock wrote:I think there's a good bet that they've got a pocket full of I.O.U's and expect him to act in their interests. stranger things have happened.

That's my hunch, certainly. I don't imagine Donald gives a shit about the pee tape at this point, if it indeed exists.


Still Baron wrote:The contents of the conversation, on the other hand, could be criminal. I guess we’ll never know.

Unless Melania squeals!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 30 Jan 2019, 20:39

Charlie O. wrote:
Still Baron wrote:The contents of the conversation, on the other hand, could be criminal. I guess we’ll never know.

Unless Melania squeals!


My wife raised the idea of Melania being subpoena'd last night. :!:

Imagine!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 30 Jan 2019, 20:42

Count Machuki wrote:
Charlie O. wrote:
Still Baron wrote:The contents of the conversation, on the other hand, could be criminal. I guess we’ll never know.

Unless Melania squeals!


My wife raised the idea of Melania being subpoena'd last night. :!:

Imagine!


Marital privilege.
Kings X.
I think?
At least as far as criminal wrongdoing goes.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 30 Jan 2019, 20:44

Still Baron wrote:Kings X.


I was never a fan but Buddha freaking swears by them.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Still Baron » 30 Jan 2019, 21:02

Count Machuki wrote:
Still Baron wrote:Kings X.


I was never a fan but Buddha freaking swears by them.


Ugh
:x
Buddha, man. So much to answer for.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 31 Jan 2019, 00:32

My wife raised the idea of Melania being subpoena'd last night.


That's my hunch, certainly.


The contents of the conversation, on the other hand, could be criminal. I guess we’ll never know.


I think there's a good bet that they've got a pocket full of I.O.U's and expect him to act in their interests. stranger things have happened.


I doubt it is anything more than the fact they have him by the financial goalies and they have a bit of pervy sex on tape


My guess is that he was begging Putin not to divulge what he has on him and saying he'd do anything to prevent that coming out, but it is just a guess.


And you tease me for having "sources."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 31 Jan 2019, 03:30

Jimbo, we tease you for believing that your sources are somehow more reliable than, say, we are!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 31 Jan 2019, 03:30

Among other things.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 31 Jan 2019, 04:31

I should ask my wife for hard evidence to back up her idle thoughts next time.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby pig bodine » 31 Jan 2019, 18:31

I’ve never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed, but even during the elections, I found that a very sizable amount of Trump supporting don’t care anything about policy, corruption or incompetence. They like Trump simply because he pisses liberals off so much. They think he’s a hilarious troll, and sadly, the media takes his bait every time, and that makes them love him even more. I am not doubting that there are those who truly like him and whatever he is doing, but, take away the trolling fans, and his chances of re-election would be negligible.