President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Sneelock
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 02 Oct 2018, 04:31

It’s a matter of degree, man. It’s the difference between pickpockets & people who hit you over the head with blackjacks. Every “credible” front runner that’s a registered Democrat that had a vote, voted for that obscene military budget. Me big hypocrite. Not give flying fuck. I LONG for sneaky, lying politicians. I’m sicker than FUCK of lazy careless liars who proudly justify ghastly policies.

So, you choose to wait for Captain Marvel to zap us right between the eyes. I prefer baby steps to waiting. We have enough exciting candidates that I’m halfway convinced we might get way better than baby steps. A lot of Dems have been recently reminded what a shit-heel presumed front runner Kindly Unca Joe was during the Thomas hearings. Is this the end of Joe? Probably not but shit gets harder for Dems by the same measure they get easier for Repubs. Could Kagan have been approved without being vetted with a mammoth paper trail? Would any Dem have gotten away with “I moved on her like a bitch”? Of course not. Be disappointed in Dems. It’s the national pastime of Dems but if we expect more of them, we stand a good chance of actually getting more. I’ll take Robber/Barons who pretend to give a shit to help themselves politically over ones are smug and lazy because they don’t have to.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Oct 2018, 06:22

Look - It isn’t like I’m just in LOVE with settling for less. But there are two basic questions you have to ask yourself about “change” if you are going to try to bring any on:

1. What does the world you want look like?

2. How do you get there from here?

Jimbo - I think you’ve been immersed in this grand narrative of “everyone but the folks in my online tribe are complicit in ruining the world” that I don’t think you have the smallest inkling what a world you would find acceptable looks like. At this point all you really seem to want is validation...that you and Caitlin and Cenk and Jimmy Dore and Robert Parry and Bernie and Alexandria and Tulsi are right - and everyone else is either corrupt or deluded.

It’s all oppositional. Even Bernie (the one with the closest thing to a vision) is offering some pretty meager policy ideas.

So what’s the vision? To replace a rotten system with a great one? What makes you so sure that something better grows in this soil after the demolition is done? What’s the blueprint for what you want to build?

You have no answers for any of that (and I predict that you won’t address any of it directly). So why should we take you seriously?

Most of us uninspiring and deluded Democrats aren’t blind to the fact that our country/world is controlled by oligarchy. Nor are we blind to the military industrial complex, and the obvious fact that all sorts of shitty foreign policy outrages are committed in our names.

It’s a Gordion knot of existential proportion. More vexing - there isn’t even a bad guy to defeat, because the machine got away from itself generations ago. Nobody is actually in control. That’s the part you really don’t seem to get.

So the questions I asked above have to be considered in that light. There is no straight shot to a world that either of us would want from where we are now. It’s going to take an almost endless series of bank shots. None of which are helped by having someone like you on the sidelines getting mad because we’re not just hitting it directly in one shot.
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 02 Oct 2018, 15:45, edited 3 times in total.
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 02 Oct 2018, 06:46

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
1. What does the world you want look like?

2. How do you get there from here?



I want what Obama had promised. Did that not seem doable? It did to me.
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Sneelock
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 02 Oct 2018, 07:21

Life goes on. He’s campaigning for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Lord knows he could be throwing his considerable muscle elsewhere. Baby steps.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Oct 2018, 07:54

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
1. What does the world you want look like?

2. How do you get there from here?



I want what Obama had promised. Did that not seem doable? It did to me.


He lived up to more of his promises than any President in our lifetimes.
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 02 Oct 2018, 08:16

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
1. What does the world you want look like?

2. How do you get there from here?



I want what Obama had promised. Did that not seem doable? It did to me.


He lived up to more of his promises than any President in our lifetimes.


There, ya see? You had to tell a little lie to keep the myth, the delusion going. Maybe we really can't handle the truth. I mean, everyone thinks they can handle the truth but maybe it's necessary for us to weave lies into the fabric to keep society together like telling your wife she doesn't look fat to keep the marriage happy. But I don't think we should sugarcoat all the killing, torture, larceny and slander. Or maybe we should but the genii is out of the bottle. That is why this internet clampdown is upon us. As a number of my favorite alt news sites are gummed up or disappear I find watching Jay Leno clips on YouTube fun, just like before the internet. So, should we blame the internet for giving us too much info (Uh, that's a little too much information.) or should we know the truth and once known and acknowledged - and all the bastards are in prison - progress?
Some say the glass is half-empty others half-full. I say. "Lemme see that glass!"

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Oct 2018, 08:20

What lie?

Let’s be specific. What promise were you talking about here?

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
1. What does the world you want look like?

2. How do you get there from here?



I want what Obama had promised. Did that not seem doable? It did to me.
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 02 Oct 2018, 08:26

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:What lie?

Let’s be specific. What promise were you talking about here?


THE promise, to make things better. They're worse.
Some say the glass is half-empty others half-full. I say. "Lemme see that glass!"

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Oct 2018, 08:34

You are an idiot.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 02 Oct 2018, 09:22

Jimbo, you're getting worse, seriously.

What are you taking?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 02 Oct 2018, 13:54

The UK was split on its opinion of the US under Trump, with 50% having favourable views

:?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... SApp_Other
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pig bodine
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby pig bodine » 02 Oct 2018, 14:33

Trump has fulfilled a lot of his promises. Unfortunately, those promises were divisive and racist and pandered to an angry white racist sexist uneducated fearful minority.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 02 Oct 2018, 15:07

but half of the UK electorate regard him favourably? I find that very difficult to believe.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 02 Oct 2018, 15:40

pig bodine wrote:Trump has fulfilled a lot of his promises. Unfortunately, those promises were divisive and racist and pandered to an angry white racist sexist uneducated fearful minority.


He also promised all sorts of things he completely ignored after taking office. He promised to lower taxes for the middle class and raise them for the rich. He promised a “terrific” health care plan that would cover everyone at a lower cost. He even promised to release his tax returns after a “routine audit” was complete.

So let’s not give him credit for any kind of integrity. Even reverse integrity.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 02 Oct 2018, 15:56

Yeah, how's that infrastructure plan coming along?
(semi-serious question; I haven't heard a whisper about it in over a year)
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Sneelock
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 02 Oct 2018, 17:20

or the war on opioids?
look, moving on California (like a bitch) because it passed Net Neutrality law - this is the sort of thing that the TRUMP admin. can be relied on to do.

"populist" promises are cans to kick down the road. the corporate agenda is the main event with more than enough Heritage Foundation / Mike Pence checkboxes checked to keep the evangelicals happy and pliant.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 02 Oct 2018, 19:41

TootyFrooty wrote:but half of the UK electorate regard him favourably? I find that very difficult to believe.


I don't. Over half the voters in the UK went all in for Brexit. It feels like another side of the same coin. This massive feeling that cooperation is bullshit, that foreigners are scary and awful, and that everyone needs to be in it for themselves.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby THE SMOOTH SOUL STYLINGS OF SUMPTUOUS SI » 02 Oct 2018, 19:49

Yeah, I get that.

But Trump-hate is across the board here. He's seen as a clown, at best, even by staunch Tories or Brexiteers. It's not like in the US, where you have a fairly clear Liberal/reactionary (for want of a better term) division. We just dislike the man as an entity, someone who represents the very worst of American excess and stupidity.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby $P.Muff$ » 02 Oct 2018, 20:30

Today:
"It is a very scary time for young men in America, when you can be guilty of something you may not be guilty of"


And in '89:
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 02 Oct 2018, 20:50

Trump's got gumption. People like a man* with gumption.

*ladies, too.
Some say the glass is half-empty others half-full. I say. "Lemme see that glass!"