President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2018, 05:43

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Okay. So let’s apply the same burden of proof to your 9/11 theory.


I suggest you move this question over to the conspiracy thread. In fact, that's where you Russiagaters should take your bs too.

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:...no real evidence, just assertions...

If I didn't know better I'd think you were just parroting your sources. :lol:.


It shows I've learned something.
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Snarfyguy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Jul 2018, 14:36

Jimbo wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:...no real evidence, just assertions...


Have you read the last indictment?


Yes I have and they seemed damning. But then we get some evidence and again and again these assertions crumble.

What is this "counter-evidence" and what is its source?
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2018, 15:11

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
Have you read the last indictment?


Yes I have and they seemed damning. But then we get some evidence and again and again these assertions crumble.

What is this "counter-evidence" and what is its source?


First of all I don't need counter evidence. The burden of proof is on you, the accuser.



Caitlin Johnstone @caitoz

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
~ Sagan
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
~ Hitchens
"We have to believe that Russia is attacking our democracy because the TV and the CIA told us to."
~ Russiagaters
5:42 AM - Jul 23, 2018



Regarding the tampering with state elections I already showed you via The Hill was a non-starter.

The 12 Russians will never come to a US court so that is a waste of legal fees.

And I read how Peter Struk (sp) said in his text how there was "no there there" re the investigation. Lisa Paige verified he was talking about the Russian hacking.

And, so far the weapons inspector guy's assertion of the indictment NSA playbook template theory hasn't been debunked.

I read that Manafort was lobbying the ousted Ukrainian president to reject Russia and join the EU. Treasonous?

(Correction. Not EU particularly but to buddy up with the US.)

In the memo, Manafort said that his “Engage Ukraine” campaign would reinforce to U.S. policy makers the positive aspects of relations between the two nations.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... or-ukraine
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Snarfyguy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Jul 2018, 15:34

Jimbo wrote:First of all I don't need counter evidence. The burden of proof is on you, the accuser.


I'm not the accuser, Mueller is. You said the evidence in last indictment seemed damning but "then we got some evidence and again and again [Mueller's] assertions crumble." I was just wondering what-all you were talking about.

Your Hill piece was in response to reporting by NBC. NBC has nothing to do with Mueller's investigation. If they botched a story, I don't particularly care and I'm not going down a rabbit hole of he-said-she-said news media reporting with you.

The purpose of the recent indictment wasn't to bring the twelve Russians to justice, but for Mueller to play some cards - to announce that he knows what they did and how they did it. None other than Donald Trump himself responded: "The Russians are nailed."

Peter Strzok's observation is over a year old and he was a foot soldier. I'll give his boss the benefit of the doubt w/r/t how this thing moves along from here.

Your weapons inspector guy's field of expertise is pretty far from cyber-crime, so I don't know if he can speak authoritatively on that topic.

Manafort, treason? Well, he hasn't been charged with that, but it does appear he may have been acting counter to American foreign policy (with these pro-Russian elements in Ukraine that he was collecting zillions from). We'll see.
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2018, 16:27

Snarfyguy wrote: We'll see.


Yup.

First of all I said the indictment "seemed" powerful. Frankly I couldn't follow much of the legalese. I could assume it had meaning or it was jargon meant to be confusing to the average reader. I'm assuming it's bullshit.

And no doubt Mueller will jail some and make a big show, keep rubes like you thinking that Russia is an enemy and all our billion dollar efforts to contain it will be worthwhile and efforts to make peace will seem like appeasement. In other words your side will win. I mean, look how every witch hunt turns out on the government's side of things. Oh well. :)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 24 Jul 2018, 16:35

I don't get this whole "security clearance" kerfluffle. at least two of those people don't even have security clearance any more. It seems like it's just more "Deep State" theatrics for the already convoluted.

it discredits all the people who claim to have briefed him. is it really as simple as that?
Jimbo wrote: I'm assuming it's bullshit.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jul 2018, 16:59

Jimbo wrote:I couldn't follow much of the legalese. I could assume it had meaning or it was jargon meant to be confusing to the average reader. I'm assuming it's bullshit.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 24 Jul 2018, 17:19

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I couldn't follow much of the legalese. I could assume it had meaning or it was jargon meant to be confusing to the average reader. I'm assuming it's bullshit.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:D

Needs more references to Libtards/snowflakes and the presstitute media.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 24 Jul 2018, 17:22

sneelock wrote:I don't get this whole "security clearance" kerfluffle. at least two of those people don't even have security clearance any more. It seems like it's just more "Deep State" theatrics for the already convoluted.

it discredits all the people who claim to have briefed him. is it really as simple as that?


Isn't it just intended to have a chilling effect for talking head types who criticize the president?
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Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

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toomanyhatz
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jul 2018, 17:36

Jimbo wrote: war, regime change, energy, weapons sales, middle east policies, etc., are what's at stake. Purposefully or stupidly Trump is fucking with that agenda.


This is what you absolutely, flat-out just refuse to acknowledge. He's not. Name me one thing he's done to change any of those things.

And sorry, supporters - "the other side's just as bad/does it too" is a moronic, meaningless response.
sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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sneelock
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sneelock » 24 Jul 2018, 17:40

My dog just fucked with my clean kitchen floor. Somebody is going to have to clean that mess up.
Jimbo wrote: I'm assuming it's bullshit.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 Jul 2018, 17:47

Jimbo wrote:First of all I don't need counter evidence. The burden of proof is on you, the accuser.


“Unless we are talking about 9/11. But since acknowledging the inconsistency of my arguments isn’t going to help me here - take that question to the other thread!”
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2018, 18:01

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote: war, regime change, energy, weapons sales, middle east policies, etc., are what's at stake. Purposefully or stupidly Trump is fucking with that agenda.


This is what you absolutely, flat-out just refuse to acknowledge. He's not. Name me one thing he's done to change any of those things.

And sorry, supporters - "the other side's just as bad/does it too" is a moronic, meaningless response.


Whoa, do you think Trump is handling foreign affairs well, as well as HRC might have done? Syria, Ukraine, Israel, SA, Africa ... all that responsibility is in the hands of an idiot. The deep state expected HRC and got Bozo the Clown. How secure do military leaders feel with him in charge. Look at how he's thinking about NATO. Some think he wants to bust it up. And he might. But that's them. But since we have Russia in our sites, do you think they worry he's doing anything to change the US policy toward Russia? They're panicking, concocting a case that gets Trump booted out and keeps the pressure on Russia.

This is interesting,

Debunking the Putin Panic with Stephen F. Cohen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUoJwXtMue4&t=18s
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 24 Jul 2018, 18:13

.
Last edited by bobzilla77 on 24 Jul 2018, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 24 Jul 2018, 19:55

Jimbo wrote:First of all I said the indictment "seemed" powerful. Frankly I couldn't follow much of the legalese. I could assume it had meaning or it was jargon meant to be confusing to the average reader. I'm assuming it's bullshit.

Well, I'll tell you one thing: you can't "fool" judges with bullshit, obfuscatory legalese in federal court.

Somebody at The New Yorker wrote:The latest indictment issued by Robert Mueller, the special counsel, charged twelve members of the G.R.U., Russia’s military-intelligence directorate, with hacking and disseminating Democratic e-mails and other files during the election. It is a highly detailed document, in many ways remarkable. In it, we learn, for instance, that Western intelligence officers had penetrated the G.R.U. so thoroughly that they could track the keystrokes of individual Russian operatives at their desks in a Moscow building. We learn that these G.R.U. staff members essentially Googled vulnerabilities in the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before hacking into it. We learn that, from within the D.C.C.C., the G.R.U. hackers moved into the D.N.C. We learn that D.N.C. data were relayed to an American server in Illinois as they were being exfiltrated. We learn that G.R.U. officers used cryptocurrency to pay people around the world to provide things that the operation required—domain names, access to virtual private networks (V.P.N.s). The indictment may only be an accusation, but it hints at the remarkably granular forensic intelligence that has been gathered.


Either you think this stuff happened, or you think Mueller just made it all up.

Which scenario seems more likely to you?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... -it-doesnt

(This article gets pretty deep into the weeds regarding the chain of custody of stolen emails, and I ultimately found it not very helpful, but I do think the basis for it is sound.)
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jul 2018, 02:16

Image

Might have to break down and actually, uh, buy this book.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jul 2018, 04:27

You might like this Davey (but probably not) because Caitlan lays into Cenk Uyger about whom you've said unkind things.

Only Idiots And Liars Say You Can Advance Both Progressivism And Russiagate

If you help the Democrats advance the “Russia! Russia!” hysteria, you are helping them do this. You are helping them maintain a political strategy which kills the need to make any concessions to the progressive base, you are helping them manufacture support for military expansionism and dangerous cold war escalations, and you are helping them divert attention away from all progressive agendas. If this narrative continues at its current frenetic level, they will be able to bully and cajole progressives to Vote Blue No Matter Who again and again and “Russia! Russia!” everyone to the right on every issue every single time. This will necessarily happen.


https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/only ... 67b7382711

What an enormous waste of time this Russia freak out is. It's a normal diplomatic issue. Spying of varying degrees comes up all the time from many other nations and it's handled how? Say it with me. Diplomatically.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Diamond Dog » 25 Jul 2018, 06:08

Trump initiates a trade war that results in US farmers being unable to sell their product to China.

As a way of recompensing those farmers, Trump gives a State bailout of $12 billion to those farmers.

Paid for by the US taxpayer.

With money borrowed from China.

When does this begin to feel like winning, Jimbo?
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Jimbo
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jul 2018, 10:22

Diamond Dog wrote:Trump initiates a trade war that results in US farmers being unable to sell their product to China.

As a way of recompensing those farmers, Trump gives a State bailout of $12 billion to those farmers.

Paid for by the US taxpayer.

With money borrowed from China.

When does this begin to feel like winning, Jimbo?


What are you asking me for? I'm a Bernie bro.

Handouts to farmers have been a thing for a long time like those wheat farmers paid NOT to grow wheat or dairy farmers paid NOT to produce milk. Chalk this up to another boondoggle. But if the tariffs do have an effect and get China to trade more fairly like stopping the counterfeiting of brand named goods, then Trump's won. Liberal pundit Thom Hartmann has been long time a proponent of tariffs. I'm pretty sure he disapproves of how Trump is doing it but like you said a little while back, at least Trump is trying to fulfill his promises.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 25 Jul 2018, 17:52

What IS the end game of all these tariffs? It's not the end of Chinese intellectual property theft. Plants are already laying off workers and talking about closing. I can't see how this makes his base happy. Who benefits from instituting a Soviet style economy in the USA?
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.