President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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toomanyhatz
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby toomanyhatz » 20 Jun 2018, 01:00

Furthermore, calling Roosevelt - who's been dead for longer than I've been alive, last I checked - to task for policies of 60 years ago takes the "whataboutism" a step further. We're supposed to be getting better, not bragging about getting worse.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 20 Jun 2018, 01:15

sneelock wrote:Jimbo, does it bother you when I compare thee to a Summer’s day?


Compare away!

I spend so much time on the computer reading articles, viewing videos, listening to podcasts, doing audio biooks about the CIA, MKL, JFK, -- all political shit and history. My brain is packed with info - alternative info, (alternative facts) lefty, righty, conspiracy and I'm loving it! Can't sleep tonight so I'm venting - and learning more from you all. So I visit some sites which are sympathetic to Trump and some of the points are good and so I can't thoroughly hate the guy. But almost everything I read about HRC is bad. :lol: But all the info is critical. Sites with just the facts are boring or deemed fake news like Snopes. What I'm doing on a deeper level is reinforcing my belief that 9/11 was our own doing. With every bit of critical non-boilerplate info I take in I think of all the illegal wars, all the racism, all the corruption, all the coverups, all the false flags, all the assassinations, all the mysterious deaths, all the mainstream pablum propaganda, all the unaccountable corrupted politicians. Then I stack all that against all the 9/11 lies and anomalies and conclude surely 9/11, too, was another in a long line of evil shit we've done. Or was that the one miraculous time in our history when we were pure and all was right in the empire except for that "waskal Bin Wadin".

From what I am reading about the CIA I would have to conclude that the way the INS is now reorganized as ICE goes back to the Vietnam War pacification and blackmail program Operation Phoenix, a template for much of our modern policing and control. Separating families is right up the Phoenix alley. Look it up. Dirty business and made with pride in the USA.

And NOW to sleep. :D
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 20 Jun 2018, 03:10

Jimbo wrote:
The Red Heifer wrote:Whataboutism is the biggest fucking handbrake in existence. I don't give a flying fuck what Obama did, what Hillary might've did, what anybody else fucking did. At this point in time the ONLY thing that matters is Trump and his stupid band of heartless spongeheads is DOING it, and it needs to be fucking stopped.

See also: the evil shit my country is doing with migrants.


What about what Hitler did? They are comparing Trump's immigration policy to Hitler. Does that ring your bell?

It should.

Jeff Sessions is comparing that policy "to Hitler." In a defensive way. Does that ring your bell?
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 20 Jun 2018, 06:57

toomanyhatz wrote: We're supposed to be getting better, not bragging about getting worse.


That's the rub. You wouldn't see it on Leave It To Beaver but It isn't getting worse. it's always been some kind of bad. (See Oliver Stone's Untold History.) Under Trump its a little worse. And pardon this next bout of whataboutism, but neither have the media, the banks and the opposition party been worse either, especially considering what they are up against. And the American people. Oy. Just read how private companies are making tens or hundreds of millions off this seemingly new trend of holding immigrant children. House kids in an abandoned KMart? Yessir, President Trump! And there is another rub. A maniac like Trump gets into office and asks how much money do I have at my disposal and he is told not to worry. Money is unlimited. Last week I went to the US Embassy in Tokyo to renew my passport. I hadn't been there in ten years since I got my last passport. The security was - - there were two cops manning the crossing corner of the thoroughfare opposite the embassy. I'm a hundred yards away and had to show ID and state my business. Another pair of cops on the other side and then I had to empty my pockets and go thru a machine to get inside. Know how much this shit costs I'm thinking - at embassies and consulates all around the world. But money is no problem somehow. The passport did cost $100. Maybe to help defray the cost. But still … Hatz, I know you think things are supposed to be better - and in many ways they are with our toys and legal weed but the US government is - - - Trump was right - - - a swamp. A swamp filled not with water but money!

When I was traveling through Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India back in the early 70s there was this bribe system called baksheesh. It was one Arabic word you had to know. You could pay off a cop or customs official as easily as tipping a bell boy. I kind of liked it at the time especially when the Pakistani border official found a golf ball of hashish in my hippie sack and wondered what to do … what to do. Luckily I had some Indian rupees bought at half the rate of actual rupees from a guy with an attache case full of money. (These were slightly crumpled rupees. Crisp rupees cost more.) I imagined back home how I'd pay off the state trooper next time I got pulled over for speeding. But then I remembered, Damn! there is no bribery in America. :lol: (Nor was there bargaining. Unlike in the mysterious east, in the US the price was the price. America has rules by God!)

You have swayed me somewhat and I now think this family separation tactic is horrid and so I hope pressure from us will sway Trump to come up with a more lenient policy. I still think cynically that ICE was harsh under Obama, too, but like someone above said that is not relevant. What's happening now is important. Trump deserves to hear an actual complaint rather than a fake one like Russia!!!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 20 Jun 2018, 07:05

Jimbo, wake up. You’re talking in your sleep.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 20 Jun 2018, 07:07

sneelock wrote:Jimbo, wake up. You’re talking in your sleep.


Mmmm. Grumble grumble. Biden 2020. Mmmm.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 08:52

sneelock wrote:Jimbo, does it bother you when I compare thee to a Summer’s day?


Jimbo art more lovely and more temperate...
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Belle Lettre » 20 Jun 2018, 10:59

The Red Heifer wrote:Whataboutism is the biggest fucking handbrake in existence. I don't give a flying fuck what Obama did, what Hillary might've did, what anybody else fucking did. At this point in time the ONLY thing that matters is Trump and his stupid band of heartless spongeheads is DOING it, and it needs to be fucking stopped.

See also: the evil shit my country is doing with migrants.

Perfectly put.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 20 Jun 2018, 14:55

Jimbo wrote:It isn't getting worse....

Under Trump its a little worse.


:roll:

Jimbo wrote: Trump deserves to hear an actual complaint rather than a fake one like Russia!!!

You already admitted it was real.

I'm honestly not sure what you're bringing to the discussion apart from unhinged, incoherent rambling. Your amusement at the president's antics and your apparent ability to believe almost anything do make you the perfect Trump supporter though!
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:15

sneelock wrote:there is a William Gibson tweet making the rounds that I think makes a good point. there is a section of Trump's audience who want to see him inflict cruelty on others. I think that's pretty fair.

Obama had detaining and deportation policies that were troubling - this is fair. Obama had supporters who didn't really express opinions on those policies - THIS is fair. Obama supporters did not GET OFF on separating children from their families. to even suggest anything of the sort is NOT fair. no matter how big a hypocrite I might be -- this is a whole different level of ugly.


Agreed. But it isn’t just their zeal that separates this administration and it’s supporters from the Obama administration.

Whatever legitimate criticisms you can level at Obama...he was an advocate of immigration reform and a path to citizenship. He was the guy who signed DACA into law. That doesn’t give him a good track record on immigration...or perhaps even a defensible one. But it’s just fundamentally dishonest to view Trump’s policies as “a little worse.”

Jimbo thinks Trump is “good for a goof” and that a “fuck it” attitude is better than outrage. Basically...he’s okay with children being warehoused in detention centers, and we should be too. Lighten up folks. The real victims here are Putin, “Bin Waden,” Bernie Sanders and the whole truther community.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 20 Jun 2018, 16:16

"a little worse"
pulling out of the U.N. Human Rights Council and openly insulting them. Neil Gorsuch. "zero tolerance" immigration until we build that fucking wall. Chumping the Paris agreement. treating longtime economic allies as enemies. calling the press liars to their faces then lying about almost everything almost all the time....

"a little worse"

I think I'll drink a little more booze and mutter myself to sleep.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:17

Relax man...it’s all a goof.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 20 Jun 2018, 16:20

I deal with at least one Trump Lover a day. it's not a goof. they are true believers. they have little dipsy doodles in their eyes. I've never seen anything like it.

well, maybe fans of the first couple seasons of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" but nothing else comes close.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:21

Jimbo wrote:I spend so much time on the computer reading articles, viewing videos, listening to podcasts, doing audio biooks about the CIA, MKL, JFK, -- all political shit and history. My brain is packed with info - alternative info, (alternative facts) lefty, righty, conspiracy and I'm loving it! Can't sleep tonight so I'm venting - and learning more from you all. So I visit some sites which are sympathetic to Trump and some of the points are good and so I can't thoroughly hate the guy. But almost everything I read about HRC is bad. :lol: But all the info is critical. Sites with just the facts are boring or deemed fake news like Snopes. What I'm doing on a deeper level is reinforcing my belief that 9/11 was our own doing. With every bit of critical non-boilerplate info I take in I think of all the illegal wars, all the racism, all the corruption, all the coverups, all the false flags, all the assassinations, all the mysterious deaths, all the mainstream pablum propaganda, all the unaccountable corrupted politicians. Then I stack all that against all the 9/11 lies and anomalies and conclude surely 9/11, too, was another in a long line of evil shit we've done. Or was that the one miraculous time in our history when we were pure and all was right in the empire except for that "waskal Bin Wadin".

From what I am reading about the CIA I would have to conclude that the way the INS is now reorganized as ICE goes back to the Vietnam War pacification and blackmail program Operation Phoenix, a template for much of our modern policing and control. Separating families is right up the Phoenix alley. Look it up. Dirty business and made with pride in the USA.

And NOW to sleep. :D


Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 20 Jun 2018, 16:24

it's more fun to read if you take out all the punctuation marks.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:26

“...and I’m loving it!”
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Goat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:35

Can we lock Jimbo in a cage whilst he sleeps please?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:50

David Remnick's column is good today.

"Some pundits have suggested that what is happening now in Texas will be 'Trump’s Katrina.' But, without excusing the racism and the indifference shown by the authorities in that horrific episode, it ought to be pointed out that at least the federal government did not order the flooding of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... g-children
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Jun 2018, 17:06

sneelock wrote:there is a William Gibson tweet making the rounds that I think makes a good point. there is a section of Trump's audience who want to see him inflict cruelty on others. I think that's pretty fair.

Obama had detaining and deportation policies that were troubling - this is fair. Obama had supporters who didn't really express opinions on those policies - THIS is fair. Obama supporters did not GET OFF on separating children from their families. to even suggest anything of the sort is NOT fair. no matter how big a hypocrite I might be -- this is a whole different level of ugly.


I think that's a very fair assessment. It's a weird way to look a things - I feel like I've gotten the shitty end of the stick and want other people to get it too. At what point to you stop feeling sorry for yourself?

And when I said I agreed with aspects of Jimbo's post on Trump vs. previous administrations, that's what I meant. There was a tweet going around yesterday from an immigration lawyer and a brief meeting with Obama. Obama didn't come out looking very well, but you have to consider the source.

Deregulations, trade war, uprooting Obamacare, severe immigration policies, tacit approval of racism, limiting the press, ending treaties, cozying up to dictators - it astounds me that even Republicans are standing for the chaos. I'm not so naive to not know why, but they're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I have tweeted a number of Republican politicians that they better be careful because they could end up looking like the Reichstag in the Weimar Republic if they're not careful and history will not be kind to their silence.

In last week's Real Time, Bill Maher expressed fear that Trump will not leave the office even if he isn't elected. I used to think that was preposterous, but know I don't know. . .

The Nazis were looked upon as goofs when they first rose too.

He is doing everything Putin wants and is a better puppet than he could've ever hoped for.

I've never felt this way about the US before.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Jun 2018, 17:17

Watching Kristjen Nielsen getting shouted out of a Mexican restaurant reminded me of Himmler or Mengele picking up bagels and cream cheese for the office staff in the morning.