President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 08 Mar 2018, 01:47

Fishing boots? How about a fishing...HAT?!

At any rate, I was going to try to veer somewhat back on course as well...did y'all get a load of that New Yorker article on Steele? It's a good summation of the story so far, too...long read but worth it.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... mp-dossier

I guess there's an audio version, too, in case you're not so keen on reading
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 08 Mar 2018, 01:57

The New Blacklist
Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it's become a way of targeting all dissent

... Since Trump's election, we've been told Putin was all or partly behind the lot of it: the Catalan independence movement, the Sanders campaign, Brexit, Jill Stein's Green Party run, Black Lives Matter, the resignations of intra-party Trump critics Bob Corker and Jeff Flake, Sean Hannity's broadcasts, and, of course, the election of Trump himself ...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/t ... nt-w517486

Looks like Putin's gotten to Matt Taibbi.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2018, 03:35

Jimbo wrote:
The New Blacklist
Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it's become a way of targeting all dissent

... Since Trump's election, we've been told Putin was all or partly behind the lot of it: the Catalan independence movement, the Sanders campaign, Brexit, Jill Stein's Green Party run, Black Lives Matter, the resignations of intra-party Trump critics Bob Corker and Jeff Flake, Sean Hannity's broadcasts, and, of course, the election of Trump himself ...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/t ... nt-w517486

Looks like Putin's gotten to Matt Taibbi.


Long ago...
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2018, 03:48

Jimbo almost talks sense here:

Jimbo wrote:When it comes to a sleazy Trump - Russia connection the onus is on Trump. That Trump is in hock to Russian financiers/mobsters is probably true. If Putin could leverage this to help Russia by, say, having the sanctions lifted, shouldn't be a surprise.



He veers off the path here:

To conflate this relationship to the point where we are on the brink of war with Russia is a crazy mistake.


Now he’s just drooling on the keyboard:

If the Russians "suggested" Tillerson over Romney and Trump acquiesced that's on Trump, not Russia. Again, if we want to get Trump and his cronies, by all means, go after his larcenous actions but the neo-conservtive establishment are taking advantage by pushing the Russia hacked our democracy bullshit - protesting way to much - in order to advance their agenda which is to keep selling arms and controlling the world's resources to help their financiers/mobsters who are not in Russia but on Wall Street.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 08 Mar 2018, 04:40

Jimbo wrote:If the Russians "suggested" Tillerson over Romney and Trump acquiesced that's on Trump, not Russia.


Well, if you're keeping score using treason as a benchmark, then surely Trump is the more morally compromised, but they're both legally on the hook (in your scenario) (and I would enjoy your reaction to Mueller indicting Putin. :lol: ).

Count Machuki wrote:did y'all get a load of that New Yorker article on Steele? It's a good summation of the story so far, too...long read but worth it.

Yeah, everything I've read about the guy/the dossier has gone out of its way, in abundance of modesty, with disclaimers about how it's raw material and not 100% accurate/verifiable BUT that a fact pattern emerges which has some degree of credibility to the point where, unless I'm going to think I'm in some kind of Philip K. Dick alternate reality, I have to infer seems more plausible than not. But talk about "burying the lede," the only new thing in the piece, aside from a lot of boring timeline details, is the suggestion about Tillerson's appointment (wait, is there a porn star element in there?, I forget).

Sorry, but my initial conclusion is that this whole deal looks shadier and shadier every day, and that future generations are going to laugh at us. :x
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2018, 05:22

Ha! Future generations!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 08 Mar 2018, 11:27

"Far fetched," I should say so! Was Seth Rich working for the Russians? It says in the New Yorker article the hack "involved agents “within the Democratic Party structure itself …”" :o

On July 26, 2016, after WikiLeaks disseminated the D.N.C. e-mails, Steele filed yet another memo, this time claiming that the Kremlin was “behind” the hacking, which was part of a Russian cyber war against Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Many of the details seemed far-fetched: Steele’s sources claimed that the digital attack involved agents “within the Democratic Party structure itself,” as well as Russian émigrés in the U.S. and “associated offensive cyber operators.”
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 08 Mar 2018, 14:35

Jimbo wrote:"Far fetched," I should say so! Was Seth Rich working for the Russians? It says in the New Yorker article the hack "involved agents “within the Democratic Party structure itself …”" :o

On July 26, 2016, after WikiLeaks disseminated the D.N.C. e-mails, Steele filed yet another memo, this time claiming that the Kremlin was “behind” the hacking, which was part of a Russian cyber war against Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Many of the details seemed far-fetched: Steele’s sources claimed that the digital attack involved agents “within the Democratic Party structure itself,” as well as Russian émigrés in the U.S. and “associated offensive cyber operators.”

... and? Are you going to go all Devin Nunes and make that the centerpiece of the story? "Democrat Turncoats Key to Russia Probe?" :lol:

EDIT: Hey look, Erik Prince lied to Congress about meeting with Russians on Trump's behalf. I can't wait to watch that scum-sucker's perp walk. This Nader dude is getting RESULTS!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 08 Mar 2018, 16:36

what better time to campaign for Dana "Russian Human Rights Violations are BALONEY" Rohrabacher?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics ... index.html
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 08 Mar 2018, 22:02

I want to apologize to Jimbo, and BCB, for my obnoxious behavior with the "Jimbo is a Russian agent" thing, something I now regret doing.

Part of the reason I pursued it is that I actually do think it's possible, but it's not the only possible explanation or even the most likely one. And while I didn't really think it through in advance, I guess another reason is, I thought it would be interesting to put a conspiracy theorist in a place where someone was asserting something about them, that may not be true, in their community. How does it feel to lose control of the narrative of your own life? Maybe that's fair play?

But it's selfish and disrespectful to all of you, and the reaction it provoked from Jimbo made me a little bit ill yesterday. I know some of the people on this board well enough to joke around like that but not him.

Again, I regret doing it and I promise to BCB knock it off.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Mar 2018, 22:16

I think it is more than fair to accuse Jimbo of acting as a Russian agent. He is.

I mean... they may not know him, pay him or have trained him. But he’s clearly decided to voluntarily take up their cause.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 08 Mar 2018, 23:31

I swear, a day doesn't go by without the craziest, most fucked up shit coming to light.

What Happened in Moscow: The Inside Story of How Trump’s Obsession With Putin Began

Also, the administration accidentally admits Trump is a party to the Stormy Daniels thing, LOL.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 08 Mar 2018, 23:53

Snarfyguy wrote:I swear, a day doesn't go by without the craziest, most fucked up shit coming to light.

What Happened in Moscow: The Inside Story of How Trump’s Obsession With Putin Began



Hell, I'm only up to what (probably) happened in Las Vegas and I'm already scandalized. :shock:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 09 Mar 2018, 00:57

What could possibly explain Trump’s unwavering sympathy for the Russian strongman? His refusal to acknowledge Putin’s repressive tactics, his whitewashing of Putin’s abuses in Ukraine and Syria, his dismissal of the murders of Putin’s critics, his blind eye to Putin’s cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns aimed at subverting Western democracies?

:lol: sound like anybody you know?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Mar 2018, 02:33

Sneelock wrote:
What could possibly explain Trump’s unwavering sympathy for the Russian strongman? His refusal to acknowledge Putin’s repressive tactics, his whitewashing of Putin’s abuses in Ukraine and Syria, his dismissal of the murders of Putin’s critics, his blind eye to Putin’s cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns aimed at subverting Western democracies?

:lol: sound like anybody you know?


I call bullshit. How can Corn and Issakof wheel out the Putins "abuses" in Ukraine and Syria as if it is a settled and natural fact. Undeniably there was some Russian involvement in these events, but abuses? As journalists they fail because there are legitimate counter-narratives to those scenarios but the authors fail to even give a nod in that direction, i.e., "Some journalists say A (link) but given Putins abuses …" Nor do they mention the US's role. Have the authors never even glanced at Consortium News where Parry made mincemeat of the mainstream narrative? And it wasn't Parry who hipped me to the Ukraine lie. It was Le Show, Harry Shearer who long ago played the tape of Nuland saying "Yats our guy," Shearer made me a Ukraine skeptic. I tried to read the article but this part stopped me in my tracks and I had to come here and vent.

PS I went back to the link and there are lots of words but not a link nor a Twitter screenshot to validate the words. Trump is a scummy guy but these guys are pimping a book, cashing in on the Fire and Fury tail wind and I can't wait to see them and their unprofessional behavior trashed by professionals.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 09 Mar 2018, 03:12

Jumbo and Putin, sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Mar 2018, 03:38

Jimbo wrote:I call bullshit. How can Corn and Issakof wheel out the Putins "abuses" in Ukraine and Syria as if it is a settled and natural fact. Undeniably there was some Russian involvement in these events, but abuses? As journalists they fail because there are legitimate counter-narratives to those scenarios but the authors fail to even give a nod in that direction.


Um, Corn and Isaakof's report is a counter-narrative (but I haven't read it yet).

Human Rights Watch world report on Russia, 2017 (including "abuses" in Syria and Ukraine): https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/c ... ers/russia
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Copehead » 09 Mar 2018, 03:48

Jimbo wrote:
Sneelock wrote:
What could possibly explain Trump’s unwavering sympathy for the Russian strongman? His refusal to acknowledge Putin’s repressive tactics, his whitewashing of Putin’s abuses in Ukraine and Syria, his dismissal of the murders of Putin’s critics, his blind eye to Putin’s cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns aimed at subverting Western democracies?

:lol: sound like anybody you know?


I call bullshit. How can Corn and Issakof wheel out the Putins "abuses" in Ukraine and Syria as if it is a settled and natural fact. Undeniably there was some Russian involvement in these events, but abuses? As journalists they fail because there are legitimate counter-narratives to those scenarios but the authors fail to even give a nod in that direction, i.e., "Some journalists say A (link) but given Putins abuses …" Nor do they mention the US's role. Have the authors never even glanced at Consortium News where Parry made mincemeat of the mainstream narrative? And it wasn't Parry who hipped me to the Ukraine lie. It was Le Show, Harry Shearer who long ago played the tape of Nuland saying "Yats our guy," Shearer made me a Ukraine skeptic. I tried to read the article but this part stopped me in my tracks and I had to come here and vent.

PS I went back to the link and there are lots of words but not a link nor a Twitter screenshot to validate the words. Trump is a scummy guy but these guys are pimping a book, cashing in on the Fire and Fury tail wind and I can't wait to see them and their unprofessional behavior trashed by professionals.


Since when has invading another country not been considered an abuse?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Mar 2018, 04:11

Snarfyguy wrote:
Human Rights Watch world report on Russia, 2017 (including "abuses" in Syria and Ukraine): https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/c ... ers/russia


Right fucking here in the first paragraph is for the esteemed HRW is a turd.

Russia continued to support rebels who commit abuses in eastern Ukraine. Russia’s actions in occupied Crimea created a human rights crisis
.

Occupied Crimea? There was a referendum asking voters if they want to stay with the new Ukraine or rejoin Russia and they chose Russia.

A controversial Crimea-wide referendum, unconstitutional under the Ukrainian and Crimean constitutions,[3][4][5] was held on the issue of reunification with Russia which, according to official results, indicated that a large majority of Crimeans wished to join with Russia
WIKI

That the HRW article makes no mention of the referendum, however "controversial," is lying by omission and flops the issue squarely into the neocons lap.

(It looks like they've been busy over at Wikipedia. I went looking for an entry re the referendum I used before and it was a lot less unflattering to what I see there now.)

Financier and philanthropist George Soros of the Open Society Foundation announced in 2010 his intention to grant US $100 million to HRW over a period of ten years to help it expand its efforts internationally.


Trigger name. Soros. :o But he's the guy who bankrolls these "color revolutions" - he bankrolled the Maidan revolt. BTW, maybe wrong here, but were the Ukraine citizens allowed to vote for this new government?
Last edited by Jimbo on 09 Mar 2018, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Mar 2018, 04:29

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Man, oh, man, you, and Davey especially. are the useful idiots if you can't see how it is the US who is provoking, prodding, begging for an excuse to have a real-man's war, to spend and then get more money for guns and bombs and submarines. We are being played big time. This melding of Russiagate, Trump's hookers, fake news, Wikileaks, Hillary's emails, Clinton Foundation, all this craziness … talk about 3-D chess, we are in the midst of a game that IMO needs to be looked at very very skeptically.
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