Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 25 Jan 2018, 07:40

Jimbo wrote:look at how John Stewart and others mocked CNN. "Fake news" wasn't a term then but still, The Daily Show with its nation-wide reach often ripped CNN. And I'm not defending Trump's blustering but I am defending Trump's criticism. Go back and see what Stewart said. CNN did and does suck


Stewart’s criticism of CNN and other new outlets was generally centered on their timidity and their willingness to join the pack in propagating lazy media memes.

Trump’s critique is that they aren’t timid enough. He thinks they should stop asking questions he doesn’t like and just act as state news.

Stewart’s critique was valid. Trump’s is un-American....and I don’t know what to say about you for conflating them.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 11:41

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:look at how John Stewart and others mocked CNN. "Fake news" wasn't a term then but still, The Daily Show with its nation-wide reach often ripped CNN. And I'm not defending Trump's blustering but I am defending Trump's criticism. Go back and see what Stewart said. CNN did and does suck


Stewart’s criticism of CNN and other new outlets was generally centered on their timidity and their willingness to join the pack in propagating lazy media memes.

Trump’s critique is that they aren’t timid enough. He thinks they should stop asking questions he doesn’t like and just act as state news.

Stewart’s critique was valid. Trump’s is un-American....and I don’t know what to say about you for conflating them.


No. Trump is calling them out for the same reasons you cited, timidity and joining the media pack. They're still pushing the Russia meme - like all the rest of the (neo) liberal media and the Russia thing is a myth concocted to knock Trump off his hill. Oh, if only Bill Clinton or Obama had gotten as angry when they falsely (?) attacked them.

I had always thought that when Clinton was asked if he had had sex with ML he should have said, "None of your goddamn business." The regular folks of this country would have cheered!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Dr Markus » 25 Jan 2018, 12:20

sloopjohnc wrote:
Bill Maher had some interesting things to say about following Trump this week, amongst them that he didn't ever think in his lifetime he'd see Republicans coming out against law enforcement and the FBI.


I've stopped watching Maher, he's getting too feverishly paranoid about conspiracy theories about the republicans. It's getting a little pathetic. Plus his ramblings and treating everything about Trump as true even when he whispers allegedly under his breath first, just for the sake of it, is getting boring. He's not the only one who does it to be fair.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 12:27

The Great Defector wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Bill Maher had some interesting things to say about following Trump this week, amongst them that he didn't ever think in his lifetime he'd see Republicans coming out against law enforcement and the FBI.


I've stopped watching Maher, he's getting too feverishly paranoid about conspiracy theories about the republicans. It's getting a little pathetic. Plus his ramblings and treating everything about Trump as true even when he whispers allegedly under his breath first, just for the sake of it, is getting boring. He's not the only one who does it to be fair.


Thumbs up!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Dr Markus » 25 Jan 2018, 12:31

Jimbo wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Bill Maher had some interesting things to say about following Trump this week, amongst them that he didn't ever think in his lifetime he'd see Republicans coming out against law enforcement and the FBI.


I've stopped watching Maher, he's getting too feverishly paranoid about conspiracy theories about the republicans. It's getting a little pathetic. Plus his ramblings and treating everything about Trump as true even when he whispers allegedly under his breath first, just for the sake of it, is getting boring. He's not the only one who does it to be fair.


Thumbs up!


:lol: it's not just because of that, there's a lot of non trump related things that have started to annoy me about him.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 25 Jan 2018, 13:50

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:look at how John Stewart and others mocked CNN. "Fake news" wasn't a term then but still, The Daily Show with its nation-wide reach often ripped CNN. And I'm not defending Trump's blustering but I am defending Trump's criticism. Go back and see what Stewart said. CNN did and does suck


Stewart’s criticism of CNN and other new outlets was generally centered on their timidity and their willingness to join the pack in propagating lazy media memes.

Trump’s critique is that they aren’t timid enough. He thinks they should stop asking questions he doesn’t like and just act as state news.

Stewart’s critique was valid. Trump’s is un-American....and I don’t know what to say about you for conflating them.


No. Trump is calling them out for the same reasons you cited, timidity and joining the media pack. They're still pushing the Russia meme



So your contention is that the news shouldn’t report on the Mueller investigation?

Let’s be clear Jimbo. It’s one thing for you to be so gullible about the slop that folks in the Parry/Greenwald/Assange/Vanden Huevel are dishing out. You are going to be embarrassed about that later - but that’s neither here nor there. But there are some basic indisputable facts that have happened that ARE news:

- A joint statement was made by the US intelligence community concluding that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. This IS legitimate news (regardless of how many agencies were actively involved in those findings, verses the others that assessed the findings credible enough to sign on).

2. Trump fired Comey and then stated that he was motivated by the Russia investigation. This IS news.

3. Michael Flynn did seek to undercut President Obama’s Russia policy during the transition. This IS news.

4. Paul Manafort did have to register as a foreign agent retroactively.

5. Donald Trump Jr. did send an email stating “I love it” and scheduled a meeting with someone representing themselves as a conduit for the Russian government. This IS news.

6. In addition to those already mentioned, Jeff Sessions, Carter Page, George Papadapolous and several others involved in Trump’s campaign are all exposed as having lied about having contact with Russia. This Is news.

7. Bob Mueller was brought in to conduct an investigation. This is news.

8. The house and the senate are conducting investigations. This is news.

9. Subpoenas have gone out to Steve Vannin and other. This Is news.

I could go on and on.

It is one thing to create a counter-narrative about what all of these data points mean, or to investigate them individually and feel like you have reasons to doubt some aspect of them. But all of the above are stories that demand to be reported.

John Stewart would not criticize CNN for reporting them. Donald Trump does.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 25 Jan 2018, 13:57

Maher annoys the piss out of me. But not his treatment of Trump. That’s all earned.

His Islamaphobia, general snideness around religious faith, and overall stupidity in buying into the “pc culture gone amuck” meme all make me want to kick him in the shin.

Last week’s rant about #metoo verging into #mecarthyism was particularly obnoxious.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 14:47

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: So your contention is that the news shouldn’t report on the Mueller investigation?


Of course report that. But It would be better quality news, i.e., objectively reported news, news that lets the viewers decide if CNN and the rest of the mainstream media reported the counter-narratives along with the mainstream/government narrative. For instance, how come you don't see Stephen Cohen or Noam Chomsky or Robert Parry to offer their opinions along with Jake Tapper and whichever establishment approved talking head who doesn't stray out of bounds of the official narrative?

If it is true that there are two sides to every story, I'm guessing Trump reads or is told of these counter-narratives, i.e., reports that Russiagate is bogus and he sees that CNN is simply not being fair, not reporting the other side of the story.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby copehead » 25 Jan 2018, 15:05

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: So your contention is that the news shouldn’t report on the Mueller investigation?


Of course report that. But It would be better quality news, i.e., objectively reported news, news that lets the viewers decide if CNN and the rest of the mainstream media reported the counter-narratives along with the mainstream/government narrative. For instance, how come you don't see Stephen Cohen or Noam Chomsky or Robert Parry to offer their opinions along with Jake Tapper and whichever establishment approved talking head who doesn't stray out of bounds of the official narrative?

If it is true that there are two sides to every story, I'm guessing Trump reads or is told of these counter-narratives, i.e., reports that Russiagate is bogus and he sees that CNN is simply not being fair, not reporting the other side of the story.


Couldn't agree more, when will CNN broadcast the counter narrative that the moon is made of green cheese, huh?

Fuck 'em.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 15:12



Davey, this is a good example of what I'd like to see more of - - and that is the last time Ricard Engle will be on the Rachael Maddow Show. If you are in a hurry watch from 1:50.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 15:21

Copehead wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote: So your contention is that the news shouldn’t report on the Mueller investigation?


Of course report that. But It would be better quality news, i.e., objectively reported news, news that lets the viewers decide if CNN and the rest of the mainstream media reported the counter-narratives along with the mainstream/government narrative. For instance, how come you don't see Stephen Cohen or Noam Chomsky or Robert Parry to offer their opinions along with Jake Tapper and whichever establishment approved talking head who doesn't stray out of bounds of the official narrative?

If it is true that there are two sides to every story, I'm guessing Trump reads or is told of these counter-narratives, i.e., reports that Russiagate is bogus and he sees that CNN is simply not being fair, not reporting the other side of the story.


Couldn't agree more, when will CNN broadcast the counter narrative that the moon is made of green cheese, huh?

Fuck 'em.


Well, kinda, yeah. not green cheese which no one believes but it is undeniable that there is a counter-narrative to the Apollo story and a large percentage of the public believe it. If there was a story about Apollo on the news bring on a notable skeptic and bring on a NASA guy and let them battle it out. The truth will out.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 25 Jan 2018, 15:34

Every narrative doesn't have/need a counter-narrative. Copehead's point, which you've gleefully missed, is that if there's factually verifiable information (say, a hurricane in Haiti), there's no point introducing someone who claims there *wasn't* a hurricane in Haiti.

I agree CNN is too timid, but that doesn't mean I want to read about how yesterday's sports scores are actually wrong. That litany of stuff Davey recited on the last page amounts to a pile of facts. However you want to construe them is your call, but they're not "fake."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 15:42

Snarfyguy wrote:Every narrative doesn't have/need a counter-narrative. Copehead's point, which you've gleefully missed, is that if there's factually verifiable information (say, a hurricane in Haiti), there's no point introducing someone who claims there *wasn't* a hurricane in Haiti.

I agree CNN is too timid, but that doesn't mean I want to read about how yesterday's sports scores are actually wrong. That litany of stuff Davey recited on the last page amounts to a pile of facts. However you want to construe them is your call, but they're not "fake."


No one is reporting there wasn't a hurricane. No one is disputing the sports scores. Many reports do dispute the Russia story. Let the media untangle the narratives.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Deebank » 25 Jan 2018, 15:50

Jimbo wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
Of course report that. But It would be better quality news, i.e., objectively reported news, news that lets the viewers decide if CNN and the rest of the mainstream media reported the counter-narratives along with the mainstream/government narrative. For instance, how come you don't see Stephen Cohen or Noam Chomsky or Robert Parry to offer their opinions along with Jake Tapper and whichever establishment approved talking head who doesn't stray out of bounds of the official narrative?

If it is true that there are two sides to every story, I'm guessing Trump reads or is told of these counter-narratives, i.e., reports that Russiagate is bogus and he sees that CNN is simply not being fair, not reporting the other side of the story.


Couldn't agree more, when will CNN broadcast the counter narrative that the moon is made of green cheese, huh?

Fuck 'em.


Well, kinda, yeah. not green cheese which no one believes but it is undeniable that there is a counter-narrative to the Apollo story and a large percentage of the public believe it. If there was a story about Apollo on the news bring on a notable skeptic and bring on a NASA guy and let them battle it out. The truth will out.


The BBC have sort of done this in their hamfisted attempts at balance.
If there is, say, a story about the arctic ice caps melting due to global warming they'll have a scientist on saying that it's highly probable that it is at least in part due to human activity, then they'll have Nigel Lawson (or someone like him) on to say that it isn't. While there is overwhelming data to support the former argument, there's just a few sceptics with an axe to grind for the latter.

My point being that you only need the counter argument if it's backed by some solid and verifiable evidence.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 16:09

Deebank wrote:My point being that you only need the counter argument if it's backed by some solid and verifiable evidence.


Fair enough. But I'm flashing back to the Jordan Peterson interview where you had Peterson presenting his opinion but only the show host (I forget her name) adopting the persona, role playing, playing devils advocate for what she assumes is the SJW POV. I'll bet were there a notable feminist to argue Peterson wouldn't look so smug at the end and a true feminist POV would be heard.

Or he'd kick her ass too. :lol:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 25 Jan 2018, 16:11

Jimbo,

Journalism is reporting the facts - not sifting through all of the narratives and counter-narratives. You’d like to see all of the folks you listen to given more time and weight by CNN. But if we’regoung to have to do that, shouldn’t Alex Jones and Breitbart also be afforded the same?

Cable news can be legitimately criticized for many things. A lack of Robert Parry isn’t one of them.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 16:16

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: A lack of Robert Parry isn’t one of them.


Davey, not Alex Jones, okay. But Parry, Cohen, Chomsky, Hedges, Greenwald, Norman Solomon, Seymour Hersh ... They won't bring on the heavy hitters. They've been pretty much banned from the mainstream.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 16:32

Matt Taibi

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/f ... ks-w458439

Something About This Russia Story Stinks

Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby copehead » 25 Jan 2018, 16:38

Jimbo wrote:Matt Taibi

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/f ... ks-w458439

Something About This Russia Story Stinks

Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment


But unlike WMD the St Petersburg troll factory definitely exists

You would have too be incredibly naive to believe that Russia doesn't attempt to manipulate Western Democracies through social media, it is about the only way they can project power anymore.

They constantly feel a sense of humiliation because they are no longer a super power a Putin is a figure of fun so being a troll nation and trying to fuck up elections and funding the far right sort of makes sense in a warped way.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jan 2018, 16:43

Copehead wrote: But unlike WMD the St Petersburg troll factory definitely exists.


COMRADE!

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