Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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harvey k-tel
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby harvey k-tel » 22 May 2018, 21:08

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 05:17

Jimbo wrote:
... the Obama administration used a longtime FBI and CIA asset, identified as 73-year-old Cambridge professor Stefan Halper, to infiltrate and spy on Trump's campaign...


Zero Hedge is on top of this "Operation Crossfire Hurricane." Even the NYT is on it except their angle is the plant was placed in the campaign to "protect" Trump while others argue he was there to ensure Hilary's win. That he was there at all is the larger issue.


Is it truly?

If you are the FBI and you’ve got a candidate who is vulnerable to foreign influence - why wouldn’t you want to be there?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 May 2018, 07:33

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
... the Obama administration used a longtime FBI and CIA asset, identified as 73-year-old Cambridge professor Stefan Halper, to infiltrate and spy on Trump's campaign...


Zero Hedge is on top of this "Operation Crossfire Hurricane." Even the NYT is on it except their angle is the plant was placed in the campaign to "protect" Trump while others argue he was there to ensure Hilary's win. That he was there at all is the larger issue.


Is it truly?

If you are the FBI and you’ve got a candidate who is vulnerable to foreign influence - why wouldn’t you want to be there?


Was there a conversation between the FBI or whichever group that went, "Ah, Mr. Trump, we have evidence that there may be some foreign agents working for your campaign and so for the sake of election integrity and for America itself, we will be installing some agents into your operation to keep an eye on things - - if it's all right with you."
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 08:45

Is that how you imagine our intelligence agencies work?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 May 2018, 08:59

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Is that how you imagine our intelligence agencies work?


That's the point! That is what the hubbub is over the "deep state." You think because Hoover is dead and there was a commission or two which exposed their crimes and that they promised never to do it again that they aren't doing it again? Look at the torturer who is the CIA director today. And look what the FBI did your Saint Hillary. I'd rather see these permanently installed guys exposed rather than Trump who will be gone someday soon. Maybe the Dems can get it together to beat him.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 14:31

Look...I’m not the world’s biggest fan of our Intelligence agencies either. There is certainly enough negative history to be wary of them.

But do you honestly imagine a world in which we don’t need them? The FBI in particular seems pretty hard to do without.

Your “deep state” fever dreams aside, it is entirely plausible that the FBI had reason to think that foreign powers were attempting to ecertainly influence on a plausible Presidential candidate. So of course they are going to seek information about it.

Neither Trump nor you has any meaningful argument showing how the FBI might have used any information they received to hurt Trump’s campaign. In fact, to the extent that the “deep state” exerted any influence at all on the election, it was to hurt Clinton.

I think there is a grain of truth to the “deep state” concept. But guys like you just project motives on it and imagine a level of coordination that simply makes no sense.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 May 2018, 15:15

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: In fact, to the extent that the “deep state” exerted any influence at all on the election, it was to hurt Clinton.


Did the horribly timed email thing hurt Hillary? It didn't help (Yiddish inflection) But are you saying here the FBI were out to deliberately hurt her. Are you saying they favored Trump? Care to explain.

"Drain the swamp." That may have been the greatest campaign slogan ever. Oh, if only Hillary had said it.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 23 May 2018, 15:19

I doubt Davey is silly enough to say that the FBI deliberately tried to hurt Hillary or that they “favored” Trump. That isn’t how it works. I’m sure it would be easier for you if it did.
Last edited by BARON CORNY DOG on 23 May 2018, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 May 2018, 15:26

LeBaron wrote:I doubt Davey is silly enough to say that the FBI deliberately trying to hurt Hillary.


I was surprised he said it but he did. I'd like to hear what he meant.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 15:41

Well by most accounts, there were factions within the FBI that had opposing views on the candidates. So to the extent that some folks within the FBI acted badly (and I have no trouble believing that some did) - they did so chaotically. Like most other things in life.

Again...I don’t dismiss the basic deep state argument that the non-elected permanent institutions in government have an outsized effect on policy and our political culture. But I don’t buy for a second that it amounts to the kind of unified string-pulling that seems to make Jimbo hard.

It is widely reported that the FBI’s NYC Office was strongly in favor of Trump and was actively leaking to Guiliani. It is possible that pressure from that office caused Comey to act improperly regarding the Clinton investigation.

Meanwhile it appears that the DC office was suspicious of Trump’s foreign ties (and at least one agent actively disliked Trump, per their emails).

What I take from all of that is that the FBI is a clusterfuck. I certainly don’t see much validity to Trump’s recent huffing and puffing.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Hepcat » 23 May 2018, 16:15

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:What I take from all of that is that the FBI is a clusterfuck.


Indeed! But as they say, be thankful for small mercies. Quite simply the more effort they put into screwing each other, the less energy they have for screwing the rest of us. Thank God we don't get all the government for which we pay!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 23 May 2018, 16:48

Davey, you make sense that this was not a grand "deep state" conspiracy, that maybe there were pro-Trump agents and competing pro-HRC agents is an interesting angle. That Trump had business connections to certain rich and crooked Russians there is no doubt so it is easy to assume the FBI wanted to know more. Then there was Hillary and her emails. Please don't deny there wasn't something fishy there. So we have two crooks (different crimes) running for President. The FBI puts a plant into Trump's campaign and also digs into the emails. Meanwhile Hillary starts this Russia Russia Russia meme; the Podesta Wikileaks show it was a scheme thought up in HRC headquarters and not a result of official investigations. So I will accept the clusterfuck idea and ease up a bit on my grand conspiracy idea but, man you have got to loosen up on your fear of the deep state. That's tin foil hat territory. ;)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 17:22

It should be said that I suspect that the largest faction within the FBI was probably dedicated law-enforcement professionals who would never think to try and influence an election.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 23 May 2018, 18:50

I've clocked in a lot of FOX News these last couple of days and it's pretty wild. It seems that the Obama/Hillary Axis of EVIL dispatched SPIES to the TRUMP campaign through their faithful servant the FBI. :lol: The President of the United States obviously has the power to decree that those investigating HIM be investigated. so, let it be written...so, let it be done.

"SpyGate" is just "#releasethememo part 2"
it's Gulliver's Travels, man. one side gets their news out of the small end of the egg and the other gets it out the big end.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 24 May 2018, 05:04

Fake news instead of real criticism
by Denis Churilov, Australia

There are so many real things Trump should be criticised for, yet the mainstream media keeps making up stuff, producing fake stories and misreporting news about him. What for? Isn’t there already enough real material for the media to destroy him without repeatedly making fools out of themselves?

The most recent case was last week, when major American news outlets (including ABC News, CBS News, CNN, NBC News, as well as the Washington Post) reported that Trump called illegal immigrants “animals”, when in reality he was specifically referring to the members of MS-13, a criminal gang whose associates have been accused of beheading their victims.

Don’t they understand that, by fixating on minor things, taking remarks out of context, misreporting and blatantly making up stories, they only de-legitimise the anti-Trump movement?

Why do they have to lie? …

The reality is that those anti-Trump forces that lobby and sponsor the media actually support some a significant portion of the Trump Administration policies. As such, all major US news outlets applaud Trump when he fires rockets at Syria. The media don’t criticise Trump for selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, thus enabling the crisis in Yemen, because the US military-industrial complex makes hundreds of billions out of it (besides, being friends with Saudi Arabia helps the US-based financial institutions to maintain the petrodollar system).

The reality is that many of those in power who oppose Trump are complicit in many of his crimes; therefore, you are unlikely to see the mainstream media covering some of the most crucial issues. But they still want Trump out of the office, so they make stuff up to compensate for the lack of things they are allowed to talk about.


https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/22/fak ... criticism/

I like how Jimmy Dore joked that the Stormy Daniels story is not effecting Trump because 99% of guys are jealous because they'd like to fuck a porn star someday.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 24 May 2018, 15:33

Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 24 May 2018, 15:40

Oh, wow, I just read the passive-aggressive letter linked in that article. What an ass, our President.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 15:46

He’s pissed because he got played.

He committed to a summit without getting Kin Jong Un to publicly agree that denuclearization was up for negotiation. Un just strung him along while he started looking for the right suit to wear for his Nobel speech - and then Un announced that nukes weren’t on the table.

Maybe having a State Department isn’t such a bad idea.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 24 May 2018, 18:02

I don't see how anyone can look at the events as they are playing out in Korea and think that TRUMP is the one playing the winning hand.
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harvey k-tel
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby harvey k-tel » 24 May 2018, 18:12

Count Machuki wrote:Well, that worked out great.

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I just found out that they're a "daily special" at the White House gift shop, just $19.95 marked down from $24.95, but I guess everybody else did as well, because their website is down. Damn. I wanted to buy one.
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